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Thread: OT: We have a Pope!

  1. #41
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    My Grandfather was a member of the Hitler Youth and he was without a doubt the kindest hearted man whom I've ever met. He was 11 years old and joined at the behest of his neighbour who was a member of the SS. What you don't understand is that you don't disobey Facist dictatorships or their henchmen when they 'suggest' you join an organization.
    My great grandfather was actually a member of the Kriegsmarine and died at sea in 1942 in an accident. I suppose they were both raging anti-semites simply because they were living in Germany during WW2.

    Your total lack of information on the subject and condemnation of a teenager is foolish. Not to mention practically calling a member of the board a holocaust denier for simplying mentioning that the Nazi's killed Catholics too.

    I wonder when Pope Benedict and PM Ariel Sharon meet their makers who exactly will have more to answer for?

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=broadwayjoe2]My Grandfather was a member of the Hitler Youth and he was without a doubt the kindest hearted man whom I've ever met. He was 11 years old and joined at the behest of his neighbour who was a member of the SS. What you don't understand is that you don't disobey Facist dictatorships or their henchmen when they 'suggest' you join an organization.
    My great grandfather was actually a member of the Kriegsmarine and died at sea in 1942 in an accident. I suppose they were both raging anti-semites simply because they were living in Germany during WW2.

    Your total lack of information on the subject and condemnation of a teenager is foolish. Not to mention practically calling a member of the board a holocaust denier for simplying mentioning that the Nazi's killed Catholics too.

    I wonder when Pope Benedict and PM Ariel Sharon meet their makers who exactly will have more to answer for?[/QUOTE]

    You know it is like any other election- the libs did not get their guy in, think it was fixed and want a [B]RECOUNT![/B]

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=regen]Yes, the Nazi killed some Catholics, but really they killed Jews, lots and lots of Jews, so for you to to ignore that fact shows either rabid anti-semitism or plain old ignorance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call you just ignorant.

    And as far as Catholics are concerned, it wasn't until Vatican II in 1968 that anti-semitism was actually renounced as going against church doctrine. Up until then, hating Jews and killing Jews was just fine with the Catholic church. Maybe you'll recall an event called the Inquisition, a body which, BTW, still exists in ther Vatican and up untill today was headed by one Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. Throw in the Hitler youth thing and you might understand why Jews might not be thrilled he got named pope.

    But on to important issues: what's the new pope's position on the stadium?[/QUOTE]


    If I remember correctly something like 30 million people died in Europe during the second world war. So in addition to Jewish people, there were Russians, Polish, Austrians, British,Italians, Slavs, French, Armenians and Czechs and apologies to all I missed.Most of these people were killed by Hitlers armies yet all we ever hear about is the 6 million. During WW2 if I recall correctly the Third Reich was occupying the country in which the Vatican is located, and the Vatican was surrounded by Hitler's and Mussolini's armies. If the Pope was critical of Hitler there was a good chance that his army would have occupied the Vatican and or massacred Italian Catholic citizens in retribution for the pope's remarks. So to say the Jews were slaughtered while the pope stood by is an outrage, 4 to 5 times as many non-jews died ,should we also blame the pope for them?

  4. #44
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    My grandfather probably rolled over in his grave today... along with him I was really hoping there'd be a return to the Italian tradition, but it's clear now that's a thing of the past.

    I still like this choice as papal, but the nationality of the Pope has always been a big issue in my family (subject of many Sunday dinner arguments), so today was like re-hammering home the point to me that that tradition is now confirmed gone. Doesn't mean there won't be another Italian pope though, which is a good thing.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=Shea319now314]If I remember correctly something like 30 million people died in Europe during the second world war. So in addition to Jewish people, there were Russians, Polish, Austrians, British,Italians, Slavs, French, Armenians and Czechs and apologies to all I missed.Most of these people were killed by Hitlers armies yet all we ever hear about is the 6 million. During WW2 if I recall correctly the Third Reich was occupying the country in which the Vatican is located, and the Vatican was surrounded by Hitler's and Mussolini's armies. If the Pope was critical of Hitler there was a good chance that his army would have occupied the Vatican and or massacred Italian Catholic citizens in retribution for the pope's remarks. So to say the Jews were slaughtered while the pope stood by is an outrage, 4 to 5 times as many non-jews died ,should we also blame the pope for them?[/QUOTE]

    Listen- I am a practicing Catholic and watching the events unfold today was very exciting to me.

    The fact is the Catholic church is run by men and men are fallable- the church deserves a good deal of criticism for their inaction during the holocaust and much more criticism for their inaction in the recent sex abuse cases involving Priests, amongst other things- anyone who denies that is foolish.

    But it takes a bigger fool to come out and make a statement that "Jews are not thrilled at the election of this Pope" based on speculation or convoluted facts of what took place 60 years ago- the fact is Jews in Rome came out years ago and exonerated Ratzinberger stating emphatically he did nothing wrong- but as I said in an earlier post- many believed John Paul II worked in unison with the nazi's so let 'em continue to be ignorant.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE]Shea319now314
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by regen
    Yes, the Nazi killed some Catholics, but really they killed Jews, lots and lots of Jews, so for you to to ignore that fact shows either rabid anti-semitism or plain old ignorance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call you just ignorant.

    And as far as Catholics are concerned, it wasn't until Vatican II in 1968 that anti-semitism was actually renounced as going against church doctrine. Up until then, hating Jews and killing Jews was just fine with the Catholic church. Maybe you'll recall an event called the Inquisition, a body which, BTW, still exists in ther Vatican and up untill today was headed by one Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. Throw in the Hitler youth thing and you might understand why Jews might not be thrilled he got named pope.

    But on to important issues: what's the new pope's position on the stadium?



    If I remember correctly something like 30 million people died in Europe during the second world war. So in addition to Jewish people, there were Russians, Polish, Austrians, British,Italians, Slavs, French, Armenians and Czechs and apologies to all I missed.Most of these people were killed by Hitlers armies yet all we ever hear about is the 6 million. During WW2 if I recall correctly the Third Reich was occupying the country in which the Vatican is located, and the Vatican was surrounded by Hitler's and Mussolini's armies. If the Pope was critical of Hitler there was a good chance that his army would have occupied the Vatican and or massacred Italian Catholic citizens in retribution for the pope's remarks. So to say the Jews were slaughtered while the pope stood by is an outrage, 4 to 5 times as many non-jews died ,should we also blame the pope for them?[/QUOTE]

    Elie Wiesel said that to deny the fundamental purpose of the Holocaust- the extermination of one people, Jews, from the face of the earth- is always the first argument used by Holocaust deniers.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=regen]Elie Wiesel said that to deny the fundamental purpose of the Holocaust- the extermination of one people, Jews, from the face of the earth- is always the first argument used by Holocaust deniers.[/QUOTE]


    Ridiculous- 5 million gypsies, gay and others were slaughtered as they were also purposley targeted for extermination- time to change the air in your bubble.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=regen]Yes, the Nazi killed some Catholics, but really they killed Jews, lots and lots of Jews, so for you to to ignore that fact shows either rabid anti-semitism or plain old ignorance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call you just ignorant.

    [/QUOTE]

    Umm using the word [B]TOO[/B] would seem to indicate that I kinda realized that it was IN ADDITION to the Jews.

    This is just cheesball catholic bashing by a bigoted moron.

    End this thread, please.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=JStokes]With all the hype, could it be....

    ...Matt Jones?[/QUOTE]
    :applause:

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE]Come Back to NY
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by regen
    Elie Wiesel said that to deny the fundamental purpose of the Holocaust- the extermination of one people, Jews, from the face of the earth- is always the first argument used by Holocaust deniers.



    Ridiculous- 5 million gypsies, gay and others were slaughtered as they were also purposley targeted for extermination- time to change the air in your bubble.[/QUOTE]

    The Nazis came up with the Final Solution in order to eradicate European Jewry, as proved by the transcript of the Wansee Conference of 1942 chaired by Heydrich. That they killed others through the same methods doesn't change the fact that it was initiated and conceived to eradicate Jews.

    You can go back to reading the Turner Diaries now.

  11. #51
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    Your logic is akin to saying....

    Joe went out to kill his wife..... but in the process he murdered his in-laws, children and his neighbors too. But really it was only his wife that really counted and mattered because that's who his original intended target was.

    Suffering during a genocide isn't exactly an exclusive market especially when it comes to WW2. In my books denying and dismissing the pain of anyone killed by the Nazi's isn't a far step from the same type of thinking TRUE Holocaust deniers use.

    I just hope one day you realize just because other ethnic/religious/social groups died by the millions doesn't make the suffering endured by Jews any less important. There's no need to offhandedly dismiss their plight to get into a 'who suffered worse' debate.
    Last edited by broadwayjoe2; 04-20-2005 at 08:50 AM.

  12. #52
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    This thread belongs in Politics and World Events for 2 reasons. The naming of a Pope is a World Event, secondly some decided to turn it into a political discussion.

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