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Thread: Kansas Evolution Debate Continues

  1. #1
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    Kansas Evolution Debate Continues

    [quote][B][U][SIZE=5]Kansas to Take Up Evolution, Creationism[/SIZE][/U][/B]

    From FOXNews.com

    Tuesday, April 26, 2005

    TOPEKA, Kan. Students in Lisa Volland's advanced biology class examine flowers, lemons and corn under the microscope, pondering how the plants evolved over time to improve their chances of survival.

    The Topeka West High School (search) teacher does not discuss the biblical story of creation or "intelligent design," just "the big e-word," as she jokingly calls it.

    "I don't think you can talk about living organisms without talking about evolution (search)," she said. "We don't talk about religion."

    Classrooms like Volland's have come under scrutiny again in Kansas' seesawing battle between left and right over the teaching of evolution.

    The battle could heat up over the coming weeks, with Kansas' State Board of Education expected to revise its science standards in June.

    In 1999, the board deleted most references to evolution in the standards, bringing international ridicule and wisecracks from the late-night comedians. Elections the next year made the board less conservative, resulting in the current standards describing evolution as a key concept for students to learn.

    Last year's elections gave conservatives a majority again, 6-4. A subcommittee plans six days of hearings in May, and advocates of intelligent design (search) plan to put nearly two dozen witnesses on the stand to critique evolution.

    National and state science organizations plan to boycott the hearings, contending they are going to be rigged in favor of intelligent design.

    "We are concerned that the hearings will be an attempt to give scientific credibility to a nonscientific concept," said Alan Leshner, chief executive of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

    Evolution says species change in response to environmental and genetic factors over the course of many generations. Intelligent design viewed by many scientists as merely repackaged creationism holds there is evidence that the universe was designed by some kind of higher power.

    At a minimum, conservative groups like the Discovery Institute want to see science lessons in Kansas include more criticism of evolution.

    "We don't think any textbook is good in presenting the scientific weaknesses," said John West of the Seattle-based organization.

    Scientists fear that that will open the door eventually to incorporating intelligent design and creationism.

    Similar battles have been waged in the past few years in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Ohio's state school board adopted lesson plans last year that were praised by intelligent design supporters.

    Some Kansans are uneasy about evolution because of their religious faith and want to see alternatives given equal time in the classroom.

    "Students ought to be given the opportunity to hear both sides," said Angel Dillard, the mother of two Wichita girls.

    The state board's standards determine what is on statewide tests, but local school boards decide what is actually taught and which textbooks are used.

    In Volland's Topeka district, for example, little or nothing is said about creationism and intelligent design in biology classes.

    Similarly, at Blue Valley Northwest High in the Kansas City suburb of Overland Park, teachers do not have to mention alternative theories, but biology teacher Jeremy Mohn did so anyway this spring, in addition to spending a month talking about evolution, including why peacocks have long tails.

    At Topeka West High, Stephanie Bailey, a 14-year-old who previously attended a Lutheran school, is skeptical of evolution, particularly the notion that man and other animals have common ancestors. "Scientists don't have all the answers," she said.

    But Emily Hane, a 17-year-old in Volland's class, said: "If you don't understand evolution, you don't really understand biology."

    In any case, she said, creationism has, in fact, come up in school in history class, when the topic was the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial, in which a Dayton, Tenn., teacher was convicted of teaching evolution.

    "We're being exposed to ideas other than evolution," Hane said.
    [/quote]

    Discuss if you wish.

  2. #2
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    Just a disclaimer: I am of the Christian faith, so if it seems that my points of view are a little skewed towards one side, consider yourselves warned.

    Anyway, I think it's time Creationism received some equal time. Evolution has been the standard in science classes for many, many years; I was spoonfed it in high school and college, as are most students. Creationism has been merely a whisper, if not, a ridiculed theory. But that's just it: both are theories. None of us were around when - supposedly - the first fish crawled up on land and started to walk. None of us were around when - supposedly - an invisible entity created man and earth in six days (and rested on the seventh). So how the heck can we prove that either happened? It should be an open discussion and we should leave it to the students to make up their own minds.

    I will go on record by saying that I am in the Creation camp. I hold true to the belief that an entity did create earth and man in six days. I don't know how, but God must've been working a heck of a triple shift. :)

    So that's it. Take it or leave it. :yes:

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    [QUOTE=JetFan-68]I'm ignoring the insane ramblings of a madman for the moment as I will not issue a rebuttal to that asinine statement. (I mean JMI, not Warfish.)

    Just a disclaimer: I am of the Christian faith, so if it seems that my points of view are a little skewed towards one side, consider yourselves warned.

    Anyway, I think it's time Creationism received some equal time. Evolution has been the standard in science classes for many, many years; I was spoonfed it in high school and college, as are most students. Creationism has been merely a whisper, if not, a ridiculed theory. But that's just it: both are theories. None of us were around when - supposedly - the first fish crawled up on land and started to walk. None of us were around when - supposedly - an invisible entity created man and earth in six days (and rested on the seventh). So how the heck can we prove that either happened? It should be an open discussion and we should leave it to the students to make up their own minds.

    I will go on record by saying that I am in the Creation camp. I hold true to the belief that an entity did create earth and man in six days. I don't know how, but God must've been working a heck of a triple shift. :)

    So that's it. Take it or leave it. :yes:[/QUOTE]

    JMI, you will either eliminate the language and personal attacks or your posts will no stay here.

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    [QUOTE=JetFan-68]Just a disclaimer: I am of the Christian faith, so if it seems that my points of view are a little skewed towards one side, consider yourselves warned.

    Anyway, I think it's time Creationism received some equal time. Evolution has been the standard in science classes for many, many years; I was spoonfed it in high school and college, as are most students. Creationism has been merely a whisper, if not, a ridiculed theory. But that's just it: both are theories. None of us were around when - supposedly - the first fish crawled up on land and started to walk. None of us were around when - supposedly - an invisible entity created man and earth in six days (and rested on the seventh). So how the heck can we prove that either happened? It should be an open discussion and we should leave it to the students to make up their own minds.

    I will go on record by saying that I am in the Creation camp. I hold true to the belief that an entity did create earth and man in six days. I don't know how, but God must've been working a heck of a triple shift. :)

    So that's it. Take it or leave it. :yes:[/QUOTE]

    JMI learn to show respect or leave.
    Last edited by jetman67; 04-26-2005 at 09:31 PM.

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    "JMI, you will either eliminate the language and personal attacks or your posts will no stay here."

    dont you believe in freedom of speech?? Freedom of speach does not allow for insulting other posters or using language. Those are the rules here. If you dont like it you have the right to contact THE_SOOTHSAYER and make your case.
    Last edited by jetman67; 04-26-2005 at 09:31 PM.

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    [QUOTE=JetsMetsIsles]blah blah blah, effing idiot, effing dumb[/QUOTE]

    Personal attacks aside, did you go to public school or private school? It depends on where you went. If you went to public school, it was likely you were taught evolution. If it was private school, creationism was the norm. I went to public school, I was taught evolution - and when I went to Sunday school at church, I would get creationism.

    Variety is pretty healthy for a sane mind. I suggest you try it sometime before you call me names again.

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    Whatever, i have no tolerance for religion, I grew up believing in god and I see the damage it can do, I see the damage it does around the world, there is no such thing as debating, you either believe in god or you dont, I see on this board if you dont believ in god, you do not have the freedom to speak your mind, even if that is making a joke about religion, we can all make jokes about liberals atheists and democrats, but when someone makes a joke about the invisible man in the sky the theist republicans say no.......

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    [QUOTE=JetsMetsIsles]Whatever, i have no tolerance for religion, I grew up believing in god and I see the damage it can do, I see the damage it does around the world, there is no such thing as debating, you either believe in god or you dont, I see on this board if you dont believ in god, you do not have the freedom to speak your mind, even if that is making a joke about religion, we can all make jokes about liberals atheists and democrats, but when someone makes a joke about the invisible man in the sky the theist republicans say no.......[/QUOTE]
    There is nothing wrong with jokes etc. Personal attacks, foul language etc are not acceptable.

    You can state your opinion IF you do it in a respectful manner.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=JetsMetsIsles]...I see on this board if you dont believ in god, you do not have the freedom to speak your mind,.......[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry JMI, but that is patently incorrect. My atheism/non-denominationalism is quite well known, yet no one has tried to silence me here. No once.

    You really need to learn to debate your positions without this kind of childish stuff man. While we all act childish here at times, you seem to be permanently in that state, and all it does is make you and your positions look ludicrious and immature.

    Of course we're not going to "convert" each other over every issue. But that is the point of honest open debate. While I may desipse some of the psoitions of say, CBTNY, it is only through open debate, WITHOUT childish name calling, that I can learn from, and perhaps understand, his positions.

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