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Thread: I am so tired of Pavano

  1. #1

    I am so tired of Pavano

    I don't want to see him anywhere near the mound in the playoffs. I was hoping we were getting the Pavano that shut the Yankees down in the WS, but no; we get this bum. This guy doesn't have the stomach for pitching anymore. Once he gets in a little jam he implodes. This guy is a bust. He is no better then Vasquez, Weaver, or Brown. He will get shelled in the playoffs(if we by some miracle make it) I would look into trading him for Roger Clemens. Pavano will never be good with the Yankees. IMO, the guy doesn't even have any talent. He is a poor man's Mike Mussina who throws 90mph's with a mediocre breaking ball, and splitter that woudln't fool Tony Womack . He is the type of pitcher that gets tatooed in games, and will throw a BP session in a big game with the Yanks; I guaranty it. Today did it not look like he was lobbing pitches right down the pipe?

  2. #2
    No, it did not. It looked like he gave up a bunch of ground balls that found holes. I said before the season that Pavano would have an ERA of about 4.30. I stand by that.

    Last night Pavano kept the ball in the ballpark which is a very good thing and something he has to do. He gave up a bunch of grounders which I don't mind.

    This is the exact reason why signing guys that K batters is the most important thing.

    Also, by the way, the comparison to Vazquez is completely wrong. Vazquez is a strikeout pitcher whose mechanics were messed up last year. Pavano gets just enough strikeouts to survive and a good amount of groundballs. His mechanics are fine and this is what we'll get.

  3. #3
    BREAKING NEWS!!!

    Carl Pavano can't pitch worth a steaming turd in the AL!!!

    ...walk, hit batter, hanging meatball over the plate...bye bye lead!

  4. #4
    I HATE THIS GUY!!!!!!!!! HE IS SO BAD!!!!! HOW CAN YOU GIVE UP A HR IN THAT SITUATION WHEN YOUR UP 1-2 IN THE COUNT. I STAYED HOME FROM WORK TODAY TO WATCH THIS GAME, AND THIS IS WHAT I GET??????I DONT WANT TO SEE HIM ANYMORE.



    WORST OFFESEASON FA SIGNING OF THE YEAR IN TERMS OF BANG FOR THE BUCK. HE IS WORSE THEN ERIC MILTON

  5. #5
    Let me guess...he squinted, lifted the left corner of his upper lip, looked in at Flash and floated a big fat juicy hanger over the heart of the plate? am I right?

    P.S. did he get booed off the mound? any well placed D batteries to his thick skull?

  6. #6
    Hehas always been a .500 pitcher. He had a good run on a really deep staff in FLA. He is not a top of the rotation guy.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeTree#55
    Hehas always been a .500 pitcher. He had a good run on a really deep staff in FLA. He is not a top of the rotation guy.
    He's not a top of the rotation guy, he's our #3 SP. He's around a lifetime .500 but he played many years in Montreal. He was great in the Marlins title run in '03 and was outstanding last year. He is a player who has come into his own the last year and a half. So far he has been up and down for us but it's still early, it takes most players time to adjust to the Yankees and Pavano is no different. He is frustrating right now but I think he'll be fine.

  8. #8
    It not even like he has the stats though. He has given up as many HRs as last season, he has given up the most hits in MLB.

  9. #9
    It was the 16th home run allowed this year by Pavano, matching his total last season with Florida. Signed to a $39.95 million, four-year contract in the offseason, he has given up 120 hits, most in the major leagues. He fell to 0-4 in six starts since beating the Mets 5-3 on May 23.

    "Poor execution," Pavano said. "I haven't put together consistently good outings."


    No Carl...you insufferable ***, you haven't put together one good outing.

  10. #10
    lol, i think i'm starting to like buffboy!

  11. #11
    Another ****ty outing by Pavano.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JacktheRipper
    Another ****ty outing by Pavano.
    I completely disagree here. In fact, I thought it was a pretty gutty performance because I didn't think he had his good stuff.

    His line ended up being 6 IP's with 4 ER's but in reality, it should have been 6 IP's with 2 ER's. Matsui should have caught those balls in LF in the 5th inning and the "double" Bigbie hit has to be held to a single.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    I completely disagree here. In fact, I thought it was a pretty gutty performance because I didn't think he had his good stuff.

    His line ended up being 6 IP's with 4 ER's but in reality, it should have been 6 IP's with 2 ER's. Matsui should have caught those balls in LF in the 5th inning and the "double" Bigbie hit has to be held to a single.
    He really should not have allowed the runner to 2B with that Balk. I did not see what the call was for. That hurt, Add in the shots to Matsui, and Pavano should have held them to 2 runs.

    I also thought he was not to bad last night. Look at his opponent. Firing heat all night long, but he couldn't find home plate. When you need 116 pitches, and only get 17 outs, you are struggling big time.

  14. #14
    It would be something if Pavano had picked Boston or Seattle instead of NY. I venture that the Yankees would have gotten Clement, which would have been interesting. But that is like being a Monday morning Q/B.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    I completely disagree here. In fact, I thought it was a pretty gutty performance because I didn't think he had his good stuff.

    His line ended up being 6 IP's with 4 ER's but in reality, it should have been 6 IP's with 2 ER's. Matsui should have caught those balls in LF in the 5th inning and the "double" Bigbie hit has to be held to a single.
    Respectfully, I think you're being an apologist for Pavano...he has been at the lower end of average (at best) all season.

    He is currently tied for 13th in the league for innings pitched with 100...in that time, he's managed to surrender the most hits (129), the 3rd most HRs (17) and the 5th most ER in the league (53)...meanwhile he's mired at 30th in Ks, 43rd in ERA (4.82) and 33rd in K/9. You can talk all day about gutting it out, and not getting the defense behind him that he deserves, bottom line is that these numbers flat out suck, and he's not showing me much to convince me that he's more than a very expensive, very mediocre NL pitcher.

    Uncharged errors are not the reason he's giving up the long ball at an alarming rate, and they aren't the reason that he isn't striking enough batters out...especially with two out and two strikes.
    Last edited by Buffboy; 06-28-2005 at 09:39 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffboy
    Respectfully, I think you're being an apologist for Pavano...he has been at the lower end of average (at best) all season.

    He is currently tied for 13th in the league for innings pitched with 100...in that time, he's managed to surrender the most hits (129), the 3rd most HRs (17) and the 5th most ER in the league (53)...meanwhile he's mired at 30th in Ks, 43rd in ERA (4.82) and 33rd in K/9. You can talk all day about gutting it out, and not getting the defense behind him that he deserves, bottom line is that these numbers flat out suck, and he's not showing me much to convince me that he's more than a very expensive, very mediocre NL pitcher.

    Uncharged errors are not the reason he's giving up the long ball at an alarming rate, and they aren't the reason that he isn't striking enough batters out...especially with two out and two strikes.
    Overall, he has been a disappointment, since he has shown he can do it, witness the complete game, 131 pitch shutout of the Mariners last month. He is also not a strikeout pitcher in the true sense of the word, so I can't get too excited about his low K rates.

    The disappointment to me has been his inability to control the HR ball, especially when men are on base. I would like to know what percentage of the total runs scored against him are as a direct result of HR's. I'll bet it's higher then the average pitcher.

    Catfish Hunter used to give up a lot of HRs So did Robin Roberts. But they managed to limit the damage, by giving up bases empty blasts. Pavano always seems to have games like he did against the Devil Rays. 2 HRs, accounting for all 5 runs charged.

    Last night, he didn't. Bases empty HR, another run as a result of a balk moving a runner in scoring position, and Matsui misplaying 2 shots to LF accounted for the last couple.

    That's why I feel he pitched better last night then he has in many of his starts.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007

    The disappointment to me has been his inability to control the HR ball, especially when men are on base. I would like to know what percentage of the total runs scored against him are as a direct result of HR's. I'll bet it's higher then the average pitcher.

    Catfish Hunter used to give up a lot of HRs So did Robin Roberts. But they managed to limit the damage, by giving up bases empty blasts. Pavano always seems to have games like he did against the Devil Rays. 2 HRs, accounting for all 5 runs charged.

    Last night, he didn't. Bases empty HR, another run as a result of a balk moving a runner in scoring position, and Matsui misplaying 2 shots to LF accounted for the last couple.

    That's why I feel he pitched better last night then he has in many of his starts.
    Of his 17 HR's, 7 have been solo jobs. 4 were hit with one man on, and 3 were 3-run jobs. No slams...yet.

    3 of the multi-run homers came in Seattle on 5/11 where he served up 2 3-run homers, a 2-run homer, and a solo shot (not a memorable night)

    He has had 4 multi-HR games and 3 games where he gave up only one.

    Bottom line...I'm not impressed.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007
    It would be something if Pavano had picked Boston or Seattle instead of NY. I venture that the Yankees would have gotten Clement, which would have been interesting. But that is like being a Monday morning Q/B.
    At the time, I wanted Radke, Clement, and then Pavano, in that order. Clement has the high K rate which is huge. Pavano has the low K rate and was lucky with his BABIP. I knew the defense here would hurt him.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffboy
    Respectfully, I think you're being an apologist for Pavano...he has been at the lower end of average (at best) all season.

    He is currently tied for 13th in the league for innings pitched with 100...in that time, he's managed to surrender the most hits (129), the 3rd most HRs (17) and the 5th most ER in the league (53)...meanwhile he's mired at 30th in Ks, 43rd in ERA (4.82) and 33rd in K/9. You can talk all day about gutting it out, and not getting the defense behind him that he deserves, bottom line is that these numbers flat out suck, and he's not showing me much to convince me that he's more than a very expensive, very mediocre NL pitcher.

    Uncharged errors are not the reason he's giving up the long ball at an alarming rate, and they aren't the reason that he isn't striking enough batters out...especially with two out and two strikes.
    Well, I'm an apologist for Pavano because this is what I expected. He had a low K rate last year (about 4.50) and his dERA was something like 3.56. He was lucky with balls in play last year and he had a pretty good defense behind him last year. This year he has a horrendous outfield defense behind him and it has hurt him. If you don't play good defense behind a pitcher that doesn't K a lot of guys, he's going to have problems. It's not his fault the Yankees didn't realize all these things when they signed him instead of Clement, who is a guy that doesn't need as good of a defense behind him because he K's over a guy an inning.

    I can also guarentee you that Mel isn't making things any better.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    Well, I'm an apologist for Pavano because this is what I expected. He had a low K rate last year (about 4.50) and his dERA was something like 3.56. He was lucky with balls in play last year and he had a pretty good defense behind him last year. This year he has a horrendous outfield defense behind him and it has hurt him. If you don't play good defense behind a pitcher that doesn't K a lot of guys, he's going to have problems. It's not his fault the Yankees didn't realize all these things when they signed him instead of Clement, who is a guy that doesn't need as good of a defense behind him because he K's over a guy an inning.

    I can also guarentee you that Mel isn't making things any better.
    Pavano had a solid 3.00 ERA last year Weaver. He's up to around 4.82 this year. IMO he will be up to 5.00 next start. That is Sidney Ponson level. This guy is a BAD pitcher. A matter a fact Marlin fans said he hasn't been good since he broke up with Alyssa Milano. Maybe Mel needs to track Alyssa down, and have Pavano pork' on her.

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