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Thread: Jorge Posada.....

  1. #1
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    Jorge Posada.....

    This guy has become a vestigal part.... he can't frame a pitch, he can't hit, he can't call a game, and he can't play his position well.

    JeffWeaverFan; tell me what you think of Jorge? Has he had it?

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    You didn't ask me, but I'll respond anyway.

    No, he's not done. Not like Bernie yet. But he is most surely on the downside. Jorge is a streaky hitter, and will get hot soon enough. Defensively, no Yankee pitcher holds runners on well, so this hurts his chances of gunning down would be base-stealers. His overall level of passed balls is actually about the same as always, so there is no change there. And he never framed pitches well. As for calling a game, he's had so many new pitchers this season, that he is letting them throw whatever they tell him is their best stuff in critical times, and that's that.

    Is there anyone out there that's available and better? Navarro surely isn't/wasn't.

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    if jorge didn't catch, he would be one of the yankees top 5 hitters

    find me a catcher that can hit like jorge posada the past 5 years....thought so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Genius
    if jorge didn't catch, he would be one of the yankees top 5 hitters

    find me a catcher that can hit like jorge posada the past 5 years....thought so
    Jorge has been unbelievable for the last 5 years - mainly because of his OBP. That's what has been so upsetting about this year is his OBP is so low.

    At 33 years old, Jorge is most likely on the downside of his career. This is the age that catchers usually start to decline. Of late, he's been terrible but he's also been slightly unlucky. I remember a few hard hit balls that are going straight at someone. At the end of the year, for a catcher, I think his numbers will end up being pretty good.

    Defensive, he's never been all that good. mbn is right that a lot of the steals have not been his fault, but he still has been subpar at that this year. He also has always had problems blocking the plate since he got injured doing it in the minors. Last night he did block the plate but couldn't hold onto the ball. I also think he does not call a very good game.

    I think the Yankees have to look long and hard for a replacement at catcher before it's too late. We do not want another Bernie Williams situation with Jorge. This is the reason I wanted to keep Navarro, who I think would DEFINTELY have been the answer. This is a 21 year old catcher who doesn't have great power, but has a good eye, takes walks, and is a switch hitter. He's also very good defensively. I think that move will come back to haunt us.

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    JeffWeaver Fan;

    I am not convinced on Navarro. Seems like a nice guy (I met him in Trenton once. But I was never sold on his bat. Good defensively, that I will give you. But I don't know if he has enough power to ever be a force there. An I wonder if he really is in the Dodgers plans, as they have a young guy in AA (I think) who is rising fast.

    ANyway, maybe someone from this year's draft will come through. The Yankees drafted 4 catchers, with Burke (from St. Johns) getting the bulk of PT so far. We shall see.

    I like Rojas at Charleston, and the other Rojas at Tampa is doing very good. But these guys are 2 years away, at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Genius
    if jorge didn't catch, he would be one of the yankees top 5 hitters

    find me a catcher that can hit like jorge posada the past 5 years....thought so
    Piazza?

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    I am a Yankee fan and Jorge has always been overrated, most of his "big hits" come when we have been up 7 runs or down 7 runs. He does have a few big hits(Game 3 ALDS '01, game 7 ALCS '03) but overall he gets his #s in meaningless situations and he STILL cannot block the plate. Give me Joe Girardi any day over jorge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007
    JeffWeaver Fan;

    I am not convinced on Navarro. Seems like a nice guy (I met him in Trenton once. But I was never sold on his bat. Good defensively, that I will give you. But I don't know if he has enough power to ever be a force there. An I wonder if he really is in the Dodgers plans, as they have a young guy in AA (I think) who is rising fast.

    ANyway, maybe someone from this year's draft will come through. The Yankees drafted 4 catchers, with Burke (from St. Johns) getting the bulk of PT so far. We shall see.

    I like Rojas at Charleston, and the other Rojas at Tampa is doing very good. But these guys are 2 years away, at least.
    He might not be a great offensive player, but you can't ask for much more than a good defensive catcher that switch hits and has a good eye. He is also only 21 so he could very well develop some power. Will he? I'm not sure, but I will tell you I really wish we still had him right now.

    As for the 4 catchers they drafted this year, I could be wrong, but I don't think any of them project to be anything good.

    Didn't know anything about either of the two Rojas' guys. Checking their stats, Tom Rojas of Tampa has allright numbers, but he is 23 years old in A ball. He won't amount to anything. Irwill Rojas is only in Charleston and is 21 years old. His numbers aren't great there either. I don't think he'll be anything.

    I wonder if they will think about moving Jon Poterson back to the catcher position.

  9. #9
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    "



    Batting Statistics *Approximate
    Year Team Lg Age Org Lvl G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP AVG OBP SLG OPS BB/K

    2001 Tampa FSL 19 Nyy A 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 --- --- --- '>--- --
    2001 Greensboro SAL 19 Nyy A 1 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 .333 *.338 .333 *671 0.0

    2002 Staten Island NYPL 20 Nyy A 43 140 17 45 6 0 1 18 2 5 20 27 5 1 1 1 2 .321 .422 .386 808 0.7

    2003 Battle Creek Midw 21 Nyy A 52 162 13 34 9 1 1 18 0 1 21 43 4 0 1 4 3 .210 .309 .296 605 0.5
    2003 Tampa FSL 21 Nyy A 11 24 2 7 2 0 1 6 0 1 5 6 2 0 0 0 0 .292 .452 .500 952 0.8

    2004 Battle Creek Midw 22 Nyy A 79 250 31 68 15 0 6 50 1 2 21 68 9 0 2 4 12 .272 .345 .404 749 0.3

    Minor League Totals: 4 years 187 579 63 155 32 1 9 92 3 9 67 146 20 1 4 9 17 .268 *.348 .373 *721 0.5


    These are the stats for Tommy. Not exactly chopped liver. Not all star level either, but he can hit. Irwil is actually a better hitter, but has no power. He is reputed to be a very solid defensive catcher.

    One of the guys they drafted this season, threw out 50% of base stealers this past college season. He has potential.

  10. #10
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    I'll take your word for it but neither the Rojas guys are thought of as good prospects. I don't know, I think we should sign Ramon Hernandez in the offseason.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    I'll take your word for it but neither the Rojas guys are thought of as good prospects. I don't know, I think we should sign Ramon Hernandez in the offseason.
    Truth be told, I would rather Bengie Molina, who is probably the only position player who will be a free agent this year, who will be worth his salary. Unless he gets $10 million per from some foolish GM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007
    Truth be told, I would rather Bengie Molina, who is probably the only position player who will be a free agent this year, who will be worth his salary. Unless he gets $10 million per from some foolish GM.
    I get worried about him because he will be 32 in the offseason.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    I get worried about him because he will be 32 in the offseason.
    Fair point. And 32 seems to be the "magic age" where Catchers break down, or start to show deterioration in their skills. But Molina was not a 140 game a year Catcher for the past 10 years, so he should be able to go on for 3-4 more years, IMO.

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    Well, here we are on Wednesday in the rubber match against the W Sox and in a critical late-game moment Jorge pinch hits for Flaherty and...


    strikes out on 4 pitches.

    I'm sorry Yankee fans, but a line-up that consistently relies on Bernie, Womack, and Posada at it's end is not going to be successful...not anymore. Those guys (Jorge & Bernie anyway) may still have occasional flashes, but let's finally dispense with the fantasy that they are still able to consistently contribute.

    They can't advance runners in the clutch and all three of them are defensive liabilities.

  15. #15
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    Correction...this whole God d**ned offense should be f***in' ashamed to collect a paycheck this week.

    What more can you ask of your pitching?

    ...and the jack***es just piss away opportunity after opportunity.

    F*** the Yankees and their 8 jillion dollar infield...play some f***n' fundamentals and figure out how to advance a God d**ned runner.

    Man I would just love to kick this team in it's overpaid a** and ask them to wake the f*** up.

    Thanks...I feel a little better.

  16. #16
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    Jorge is horrible and is killing us, the man cannot hit- why would you pinch hit him for anybody? Of course that wasn't the worst of it, on the GW run he FOR ONCE blocks the plate but tags the runner high and he slides in safe. It should have been an out and thye should still be playing.

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    The Angels will re-sign Molina at almost any cost. So forget about him. They have a stud in AAA Jeff Mathis who is much younger but you dont plop a rookiw catcher onto a team that is close to a championship. Id love to see the kid get a chance but not at the expense of the team. Bengie is a gold glove caliber catcher who bats .300, thats pretty rare. Maybe? they would do a sign and trade if a team offered enough for him? But for who? We need a DH, maybe a long middle reliever but not much else. Erstad, kennedy, cabrera, mc pherson, vlad, figgins, anderson, and finley? Not too many weak links really. They would love a power hitting CF but who has one to offer? What would the Yanks offer in return? Their system is depleted. i think molina stays put.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliJetsFan
    The Angels will re-sign Molina at almost any cost. So forget about him. They have a stud in AAA Jeff Mathis who is much younger but you dont plop a rookiw catcher onto a team that is close to a championship. Id love to see the kid get a chance but not at the expense of the team. Bengie is a gold glove caliber catcher who bats .300, thats pretty rare. Maybe? they would do a sign and trade if a team offered enough for him? But for who? We need a DH, maybe a long middle reliever but not much else. Erstad, kennedy, cabrera, mc pherson, vlad, figgins, anderson, and finley? Not too many weak links really. They would love a power hitting CF but who has one to offer? What would the Yanks offer in return? Their system is depleted. i think molina stays put.
    They do have the kid who is about ready, and they have the other Molina, who can split time with him. They also can get themselves a vet to mentor Mathis if they need one.

    I don't think they throw big $$$ and multiple years at Bengie.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliJetsFan
    The Angels will re-sign Molina at almost any cost. So forget about him. They have a stud in AAA Jeff Mathis who is much younger but you dont plop a rookiw catcher onto a team that is close to a championship. Id love to see the kid get a chance but not at the expense of the team. Bengie is a gold glove caliber catcher who bats .300, thats pretty rare. Maybe? they would do a sign and trade if a team offered enough for him? But for who? We need a DH, maybe a long middle reliever but not much else. Erstad, kennedy, cabrera, mc pherson, vlad, figgins, anderson, and finley? Not too many weak links really. They would love a power hitting CF but who has one to offer? What would the Yanks offer in return? Their system is depleted. i think molina stays put.
    I agree with mbn. He's 32 years old and is going to demand pretty good money. I just think that the Angels could use that money more wisely.

    As for your sign and trade idea, baseball doesn't work like that. If you sign a guy to a contract, you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can trade him. It's not like it is in basketball.

    The Yankee system is not depleted. It is true that there is not much ML ready talent right now, but there is a ton of talent in the lower leagues. Also, and people seem to forget this, the Yankee farm system, which everyone thought was terrible before the season, has 2 prospects on the team right now (Counting Wang for the sake of argument) who have been fantastic. Both would be (if Wang didn't get injured) ROY candidates.

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    I completely forgot to post what I came here to post in the first place. I'm sure a lot of people were watching the end of the Met game today. Well, did anyone else notice the fantastic block of the plate that Dioner Navarro did in the 9th to keep the game tied? I'm so pissed off we didn't keep this kid. He is a stud defensively (named defensive catcher of the year in the minors I believe) and he walks a lot. Look at his numbers now after he originally slumped! .289/.407/.356. The SLG is not there yet but he will defintely develop it. There is no doubt trading Navarro is going to haunt the Yankees for years. I'M PISSED!

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