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Thread: 9-11 families want new panel

  1. #1
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    9-11 families want new panel

    I hope this time they put that pig Garelick, Mr. Oral office himself Clinton and those scum lawyers on the stand to explain themselves.


    Victims' Families Outraged, Want New 9/11 Panel

    The families of 9/11 victims are outraged that military spies were blocked from sharing key intelligence they believe could have averted the terrorist attacks – and are calling for a new commission to investigate.

    "I’m angry that my son's death could have been prevented," Diana Horning, whose son was killed at the World Trade Center, told the New York Post.

    "It outrages me because it's taken four years to come out."

    Horning and other family members of 9/11 victims are up in arms over the disclosure that the elite military intelligence unit "Able Danger" had identified Mohamed Atta and three other Sept. 11 hijackers more than a year before the attacks, but military lawyers stopped the unit from sharing that information with the FBI.

    "I don't think you can understate the significance here," Mindy Kleinberg, a member of the Sept. 11 Advocates, a coalition of family members, told the Post.

    "You're talking about the four lead hijackers. If we shared information and did surveillance on them, there is no telling what we could have uncovered and what we could have thwarted.

    "I think we do need a new commission, and that's really sad."

    Rep. Curt Weldon, R-Pa., vice chairman of the House Armed Services and Homeland Security committees, has said the Sept. 11 Commission did not adequately investigate the report that four of the hijackers had been identified.

    And Bill Doyle, whose son was killed on 9/11, ripped Jamie Gorelick, President Clinton's deputy attorney general, who codified the separation between intelligence and investigative agencies in a 1995 memo – then was chosen to serve on the Sept. 11 Commission investigating the attacks.

    "What is disheartening," said Doyle, "is from the beginning, we said Jamie Gorelick had a conflict of interest.

  2. #2
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    [url="http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96949"]http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96949[/url]

  3. #3
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    once we nail that bastard Clinton then everything in the world will be fine. Terrorism will stop! All we have to do is point fingers at the rulers of the past and all of our problems will be solved.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]once we nail that bastard Clinton then everything in the world will be fine. Terrorism will stop! All we have to do is point fingers at the rulers of the past and all of our problems will be solved.[/QUOTE]

    Let's just excuse the fact that he is a HUGE reason 3,000 American citizens are dead. Koom by yah.

    Those families deserve no explanation or truth, right? Ahhhh F@ck em let's move on and worry about Madonna falling off a horse.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]once we nail that bastard Clinton then everything in the world will be fine. Terrorism will stop! All we have to do is point fingers at the rulers of the past and all of our problems will be solved.[/QUOTE]

    Maybe if Operation Able Danger weren't swept under the semen-stained rug, thousands of soldiers and civilians would be alive today!

    I guess if we impeach that bastard Bush, terrorism will just stop.

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    [QUOTE=pope]Let's just excuse the fact that he is a HUGE reason 3,000 American citizens are dead. Koom by yah.

    Those families deserve no explanation or truth, right? Ahhhh F@ck em let's move on and worry about Madonna falling off a horse.[/QUOTE]
    Well, what about the lady whose son was killed in action who thinks that there is nothing in America worth dying for? Why won't anyone pay attention to her?

    [sarcasm off - gotta announce that around here, don't know when jets16 or whatever will be reading]

  7. #7
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    guess what guys there were signs that Bush ignored as well - everyone f--ked up - that's not news. hashing and re-hashing all the mistakes made is good if we want to improve the process but if you just want to score political points that's not productive.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]guess what guys there were signs that Bush ignored as well - everyone f--ked up - that's not news. hashing and re-hashing all the mistakes made is good if we want to improve the process but if you just want to score political points that's not productive.[/QUOTE]
    The 9/11 Commission was ostensibly about finding the truth, not to blame Bush or Clinton (but, they did their best to blame Bush before the election, didn't they) - now, it seems likely that pertinent and vital information was purposely disregarded, buried even, by a commission whose makeup was compromised by even having Gorelick on it. Totally bogus - and you know what? What about the 9/11 families, bitonti - I know you'd like to 'move on' from here, but what about the families and communities devastated by 9/11. Do they deserve the truth or gamesmanship by Gorelick, et al.? No one is looking to blame Clinton or Bush, but if one guy looks worse than the other, so be it. The obvious cover-up is inexcusable considering the subject matter. I'm upset by the wall of secrecy, but enraged about the coverup.

  9. #9
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    Grieving parents only have moral authority if they are rabidly anti-Bush. C'mon, didn't you get that memo?

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    [QUOTE=jets5ever]Grieving parents only have moral authority if they are rabidly anti-Bush. C'mon, didn't you get that memo?[/QUOTE]
    Was it an official memo or a Dowd-authored diktat, or are they interchangeable to some folks?

    This 9/11 Commission information sits quietly in the media's living room like a 700 lb. gorilla with its legs crossed, not going anywhere - thank goodness. The left can run, but not hide from the truth and that truth will be right there like a wart when the Sheehan madness subsides.

    Mark Steyn's thoughts:

    [I]Is it only five years since the White House press corps was spending its summers traipsing round Martha’s Vineyard and the Hamptons watching Bill Clinton hang with Carly Simon and Steven Spielberg? Since the Bush terror, alas, they’ve been condemned under a little-known provision of the Patriot Act to confinement in Crawford, Texas for one whole month a year. Crawford is where George W. Bush has his ranch and, other than that distinction, it is (as I wrote here in August 2000) ‘a dusty crossroads in the middle of a drought-stricken, sun-broiled plain, population 690 — with five churches but not a single hotel’. Since the annual influx of journalists, they may have added a hotel but also no doubt half a dozen more churches just to wind up the godless hordes of the Fourth Estate.

    ...When it comes to political theatre, Crawford now finds itself playing host to the nation’s most critically acclaimed summer stock.

    Last year it was former Georgia Senator Max Cleland...Anyway, the President never did come out to meet Cleland. He may still be there for all I know.

    This year’s performer in residence is Cindy Sheehan,...Her son’s loss — like Max Cleland’s wounds — is supposed to put her beyond reproach.... For as the New York Times’s Maureen Dowd informed us, ‘The moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute.’ ...

    Really? Well, what about those other parents who’ve buried children killed in Iraq? ... There’s one Cindy Sheehan and she’s on TV round the clock. She may not be emblematic of bereaved military families, but she’s certainly symbolic of media-Left desperation. ...

    And, if you’re as heavily invested as Ms Dowd in the notion that those ‘killed in Iraq’ are ‘children’, then Mrs Sheehan’s status as grieving matriarch is a bonanza.

    ...I get many emails from soldiers in Iraq, and they sound a lot more grown-up than most Ivy League professors and certainly than Maureen Dowd, who writes as if she’s auditioning for a minor supporting role in Sex and the City. The infantilisation of the military promoted by the Left is deeply insulting to America’s warriors but it suits the anti-war crowd’s purposes. It enables them to drone ceaselessly that ‘of course’ they ‘support our troops’, because they want to stop these poor confused moppets from being exploited by the Bush war machine.

    So, when Cindy Sheehan came into view, Bush-disparagers from Washington to Hollywood cried ‘Bingo!’ ‘Cindy Sheehan is my hero,’ says Christine Lahti, former star of TV’s Chicago Hope...

    Cindy Sheehan is a woman whose grief has curdled into a narcissistic rage, [B]and the Democrats cheering her on are cheering their own marginalisation. [/B] Most Americans will not follow where she’s gone — to the wilder shores of anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-Iraq, anti-Afghanistan, anti-Israel, anti-American paranoia. Casey Sheehan’s service was not the act of a child. A shame you can’t say the same about his mom’s new friends.[/I]


    [url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1465895/posts[/url]

    Selected snippets from a spot-on piece. The left is as desperate as ever, but how about some attentions for those who grieved over 9/11? Don't they deserve the truth?

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=sackdance]
    Cindy Sheehan is a woman whose grief has curdled into a narcissistic rage, [B]and the Democrats cheering her on are cheering their own marginalisation. [/B] Most Americans will not follow where she’s gone — to the wilder shores of anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-Iraq, anti-Afghanistan, anti-Israel, anti-American paranoia. Casey Sheehan’s service was not the act of a child. A shame you can’t say the same about his mom’s new friends.[/I]
    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe not to the extremes this article states but most Americans believe that the war in Iraq is going poorly. Most Americans believe it was not worth fighting. That's what most Americans believe and it's not speculation it's fact.

    As for the families of 9/11 - their loss will always be tragic - finding someone to blame isn't going to help them grieve. Even if it comes out Bill Clinton and his staff were 100% to blame for 9/11, that won't ease the hurt of the famillies. It's always going to hurt, and assigning blame won't change that.

    It's not surprising to me that the right wing would rather talk about what Clinton did than what Bush is doing. If I were a supporter of Bush I wouldn't want to talk directly about the war either. It's a friggin disaster.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]Maybe not to the extremes this article states but most Americans believe that the war in Iraq is going poorly. Most Americans believe it was not worth fighting. That's what most Americans believe and it's not speculation it's fact.

    As for the families of 9/11 - their loss will always be tragic - finding someone to blame isn't going to help them grieve. Even if it comes out Bill Clinton and his staff were 100% to blame for 9/11, that won't ease the hurt of the famillies. It's always going to hurt, and assigning blame won't change that.

    It's not surprising to me that the right wing would rather talk about what Clinton did than what Bush is doing. If I were a supporter of Bush I wouldn't want to talk directly about the war either. It's a friggin disaster.[/QUOTE]

    "most Americans"....any links??

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]"most Americans"....any links??[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=IRAQ-PUBLIC-08-17-05&cat=WW[/url]

    [url]http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1076731&tw=wn_wire_story[/url]

    [url]http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/12394308.htm[/url]

    [url]http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=22&art_id=qw11232288025B221[/url]

    [url]http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2005-07-27T072156Z_01_N27219442_RTRIDST_0_USREPORT-IRAQ-USA-POLL-DC.XML[/url]

    [url]http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/12377874.htm[/url]

    ---

    just to let you know there's at least 3 polls in those links: AP-Ipsos, USAToday/Gallup, and the council of foreign relations.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti][url]http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=IRAQ-PUBLIC-08-17-05&cat=WW[/url]

    [url]http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1076731&tw=wn_wire_story[/url]

    [url]http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/12394308.htm[/url]

    [url]http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=22&art_id=qw11232288025B221[/url]

    [url]http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2005-07-27T072156Z_01_N27219442_RTRIDST_0_USREPORT-IRAQ-USA-POLL-DC.XML[/url]

    [url]http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/12377874.htm[/url]

    ---

    just to let you know there's at least 3 polls in those links: AP-Ipsos, USAToday/Gallup, and the council of foreign relations.[/QUOTE]

    Where are the links to the actual polls themselves...these are nothing but articles..

    One article iol.ca, states "they polled 1000 people".....of this lends proof to your statement "Most Americans believe it was not worth fighting."

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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]Where are the links to the actual polls themselves...these are nothing but articles..

    One article iol.ca, states "they polled 1000 people".....of this lends proof to your statement "Most Americans believe it was not worth fighting."[/QUOTE]

    Come Back

    1000 is a common number in these polls - and a significant enough number to find statistical impact. When 87% of Americans loved Bush after 9-11 it was the same number of 1000, i didn't hear anyone questioning the validity of the polling when it was in his favor?

    heres AP direct

    [url]http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=2747[/url]


    the Gallup poll is here but it requires subscription

    [url]http://www.gallup.com/poll/[/url]

    The council for foreign affairs is a pay journal and isn't out til tomorrow.

    sorry that's the best i could do.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]Maybe not to the extremes this article states but most Americans believe that the war in Iraq is going poorly. Most Americans believe it was not worth fighting. That's what most Americans believe and it's not speculation it's fact.

    As for the families of 9/11 - their loss will always be tragic - finding someone to blame isn't going to help them grieve. Even if it comes out Bill Clinton and his staff were 100% to blame for 9/11, that won't ease the hurt of the famillies. It's always going to hurt, and assigning blame won't change that.

    It's not surprising to me that the right wing would rather talk about what Clinton did than what Bush is doing. If I were a supporter of Bush I wouldn't want to talk directly about the war either. It's a friggin disaster.[/QUOTE]




    So if someone came into your house and killed your family, you'd just move on? You wouldn't want the cops to find out who was responsible for it, you wouldn't want that person held responsible?

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]Come Back

    1000 is a common number in these polls - and a significant enough number to find statistical impact. When 87% of Americans loved Bush after 9-11 it was the same number of 1000, i didn't hear anyone questioning the validity of the polling when it was in his favor?

    heres AP direct

    [url]http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=2747[/url]


    the Gallup poll is here but it requires subscription

    [url]http://www.gallup.com/poll/[/url]

    The council for foreign affairs is a pay journal and isn't out til tomorrow.

    sorry that's the best i could do.[/QUOTE]

    Please...don't explain polls to me...and again, as redundant it is...you were the one who told me I was in denial about GWB's re-election bid based on "low polling approval numbers"...

    ...anyway, back to your "polls" and the way the "majority" of Americans feel....going quickly to the IPSOS poll the data quickly tells one at the top that respondents to the poll were 37%-41% Republican and 47%-50% rat. 15% are not even registered voters.

    [url]http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=2747[/url] (Topline results)

    Like I told you before....you keep relying on the results of 1000 people polled- I'll stick with the 116-million who voted last November. :D
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 08-19-2005 at 02:20 PM.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]
    Like I told you before....you keep relying on the results of 1000 people polled- I'll stick with the 116-million who voted last November. :D[/QUOTE]

    CBNY i don't need polls or pundits to tell me the war in Iraq is doomed to failure. I just trot these things out here for your benefit. You don't believe me you don't believe the polls maybe you will believe it when you are an old man and history has shown the Iraq war to be an abysmal failure? Probably not though.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=pope]So if someone came into your house and killed your family, you'd just move on? You wouldn't want the cops to find out who was responsible for it, you wouldn't want that person held responsible?[/QUOTE]

    Oh i am sure I would want those things to happen. But I am also realistic to know that even if the cops found the killer, put him to death - where would that leave me? My family is still dead. The hurt will always be there, and revenge or assigning blame doesn't change that.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=bitonti][B]CBNY i don't need polls or pundits to tell me the war in Iraq is doomed to failure. [/B] I just trot these things out here for your benefit. You don't believe me you don't believe the polls maybe you will believe it when you are an old man and history has shown the Iraq war to be an abysmal failure? Probably not though.[/QUOTE]

    right...you made up your mind a long time ago when the liberal talking points were handed out...hence there is no reason to debate you on the topic...

    nice way to sidestep the issue of relying on polls of 1000 people who either don't vote or are mostly deomcrat to proclaim your point of how "a majority of Americans feel"! :yes:

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