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Thread: Inside 9-11, national geographic

  1. #1
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    Inside 9-11, national geographic

    So i watched the first part of this series last night, besides the Clinton Administration being a complete incompetant failure, one thing stood out to me.

    After the Russians were defeated in Afghanistan, these muslim fanatics now thought they were invinsible, there was no one they couldn't take on including the U.S., Al Qeada was born and was exported to over 35 countries.

    All you lefties who think cutting from Iraq is a good idea, I suggest you watch this program and learn a lesson from it. If the U.S. leaves Iraq and gives these sub-humans a victory it would be devastating, just as it would be equally devastating to them if they were on the losing end of it.

    They must be defeated, regardless of how long it takes.

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    [QUOTE=pope]
    After the Russians were defeated in Afghanistan, these muslim fanatics now thought they were invinsible, [/QUOTE]

    pope who funded and trained the afghanis in the 1980s? does that matter?

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]pope who funded and trained the afghanis in the 1980s? does that matter?[/QUOTE]

    The CIA. What's your point?

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    [QUOTE=pope]The CIA. What's your point?[/QUOTE]

    my point is these guys were our boys in the 1980s - we helped create that monster Bin Ladin. That's gotta be addressed.

    or how about that joke - how does Bush know Iraq has WMD? because he has the receipt.

    we are right now trying to defeat enemies that we created. Maybe we shouldn't have created them in the first place? nah that makes too much sense lets blame Bill Clinton instead.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]my point is these guys were our boys in the 1980s - we helped create that monster Bin Ladin. That's gotta be addressed.

    or how about that joke - how does Bush know Iraq has WMD? because he has the receipt.

    we are right now trying to defeat enemies that we created. Maybe we shouldn't have created them in the first place? nah that makes too much sense lets blame Bill Clinton instead.[/QUOTE]


    I don't know all the ramifications of what would have occured if Russia was able to take over Afghanistan and beyond but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been a good idea at the time.

    The original point of the thread was that Iraq MUST BE WON at all cost, not that the CIA and the U.S. who was in a struggle with the Soviet Union at that time chose to help bring them down.

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    well to address the original point of this thread you know just as well as I do what kind of animals we are dealing with in Iraq. Giving these people a western-style liberal democracy - with liberty and justice for all is like giving a chess set to a chimp. We need them to move Knight to Queen 7 and all they want to do is throw their feces on the wall. It's bound to failure and somewhere along the line the guy who had the bright idea to give animals a democracy has to be blamed. All of the freedom that our men fought and die for will not be defended by gutless animals. That's the problem with this war. It's goals are unreachable. Bush says as they stand up we will stand down - guess what these people are still behind the eight ball when it comes to upright walking. They are gutless and lazy and will roll over the second we leave, just like the South Vietnamese rolled over the second we left there.

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    Towards the end of Pt I, they mentioned a student at New Utrecht HS mentioned to a teacher on 9/6/01, that he was looking at the towers 'cause they wouldnt be there next week. According to NG, this conversation was confirmed by the FBI. However, NG never mentioned who the student was or whatever happened to him.
    I had never heard of this before. Has anyone else ever heard this before?

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    "We need them to move Knight to Queen 7 and all they want to do is throw their feces on the wall."

    This is pretty funny. I think I was going to rebut Bit's post, but this made me laugh so hard I forgot what I was gonna say.
    Last edited by kevin45; 08-22-2005 at 01:48 PM.

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    [QUOTE=sect112row36]Towards the end of Pt I, they mentioned a student at New Utrecht HS mentioned to a teacher on 9/6/01, that he was looking at the towers 'cause they wouldnt be there next week. According to NG, this conversation was confirmed by the FBI. However, NG never mentioned who the student was or whatever happened to him.
    I had never heard of this before. Has anyone else ever heard this before?[/QUOTE]


    I never heard that before either....really bizarre. But, had to say it was excellently done. Hard watching all that again, but definately learned some new stuff about 9/11

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    [QUOTE=pope]So i watched the first part of this series last night, besides [b]the Clinton Administration being a complete incompetant failure[/b], one thing stood out to me.

    After the Russians were defeated in Afghanistan, these muslim fanatics now thought they were invinsible, there was no one they couldn't take on including the U.S., Al Qeada was born and was exported to over 35 countries.

    All you lefties who think cutting from Iraq is a good idea, I suggest you watch this program and learn a lesson from it. If the U.S. leaves Iraq and gives these sub-humans a victory it would be devastating, just as it would be equally devastating to them if they were on the losing end of it.

    They must be defeated, regardless of how long it takes.[/QUOTE]

    If Billy Boy BJ had gotten off Monica long enough to fight terrorism, the Twin Towers would probably still be standing and 3000 people would be coming home tonight to have dinner with their families...

    But I guess giving his intern pap smears with a cigar was more important to him...

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    [QUOTE=Lawyers, Guns and Money]I never heard that before either....really bizarre. But, had to say it was excellently done. Hard watching all that again, but definately learned some new stuff about 9/11[/QUOTE]
    That's hooey, I think. I don't think even the planners knew for certain themselves that the towers would collapse totally - what they did know was that if successful it would be a spectacular loss of life. Just my theory, didn't see the film though. Would like to.

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    I thought the mission was accomplished?

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    [QUOTE=bitonti]my point is these guys were our boys in the 1980s - we helped create that monster Bin Ladin. That's gotta be addressed.

    or how about that joke - how does Bush know Iraq has WMD? because he has the receipt.

    we are right now trying to defeat enemies that we created. Maybe we shouldn't have created them in the first place? nah that makes too much sense lets blame Bill Clinton instead.[/QUOTE]

    Bit, you keep harping on this point, but most people agree that it was mistake to fund them from the get-go. But by using your logic, the fact we f*cked up is the only point that should be addressed here.

    Think of it this way: if parents gave their daughter some alcohol when she was younger because they thought it help her appreciate it and not abuse it, but instead she turns into a dangerous alcoholic. Should the parents keep harping on the fact they messed up by introducing her to it or should they do what they can to help her stop abusing herself and others? By using your logic, they and everyone else should just keep harping on the fact they messed up by giving her the alcohol, and not worry about stopping it.

    Point is, we messed up in the past. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt correct our mistake.

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    First part was well done. When is part 2?

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    [QUOTE=cr726]I thought the mission was accomplished?[/QUOTE]

    Some parts of the mission were accomplished.

    I dont think the iraquis will ever have a western style democracy, so that part wont happen imo.

    I also dont see the need for keeping troops there for an additional 4 years, and I think that statement is just some propaganda to try to get into the heads of the al jazeera people.

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    [QUOTE=TheBrodyMan]
    Point is, we messed up in the past. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt correct our mistake.[/QUOTE]

    it's hard to move past it when we are interfering in the affairs of the ME more than ever. What happens when members of the new the Iraqi Army become the next 9-11 type terrorists? It's the same mistake all over again. I'm not interested in re-living the past I am interested in making this country safe going forward. I don't see how turning a secular Iraq into an Islamist Iraq makes us any safer.

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    I got this off MSNBC-re the New Utrecht student (Ive been thinking about this alot today)
    Still not sure if its true or not



    A Chilling Tale
    A Brooklyn boy predicted the World Trade Center attacks. What’s a jittery New York to make of that?
    Newsweek Web Exclusive
    Updated: 11:57 a.m. ET Oct. 12, 2001
    Oct. 12 - This week, I went to Brooklyn in search of an “urban myth” about the World Trade Center assault. Was word of the attack on the street before Sept. 11? What I found out was chilling—this story is no myth.


    EVERYONE HAS HEARD the stories—the “friend of a friend” who was stood up by her Afghan boyfriend, who then told her in an e-mail not to get on a commercial jet on Sept. 11. The next-door neighbors of Middle Eastern descent who threw a raucous party on Sept. 10—and then were nowhere to be found the next day.

    The story I was looking for had circulated less widely and in more general form. It recounted the story of a kid who bragged around school before the attacks that the World Trade Center was going to be destroyed. On Oct. 11, Jeffrey Scott Shapiro, an aggressive young reporter for The New York Journal News of Westchester County, N.Y., published an article that tracked the story to New Utrecht High School in Brooklyn, N.Y. Shapiro identified a teacher who witnessed a freshman in her class saying the week prior to the World Trade Center attacks: “Do you see those two buildings? They won’t be standing there next week.”

    “This is the only case we know of where someone said the World Trade Center was coming down prior to it happening,” a police source told me.

    New Utrecht High School in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, is a wonderful melting pot. On Thursday, when I visited, two girls—one Chinese, one Russian—sat poring over SAT prep material near polling booths set up for the New York City mayoral runoff. I heard at least three languages spoken I couldn’t even begin to identify. With 116 students from Pakistan, the school offers courses in Urdu.

    Bensonhurst has changed immeasurably since the days of black versus white racial confrontation in the 1980s. Immigrants, many of whom speak little English, far outnumber native speakers on the streets. The restaurants and shops offer food from dozens of countries.

    Since Sept. 11, hundreds of calls have poured into the local police precinct, but real incidents have been few. Someone tried to throw a Molotov cocktail into a mosque, but it hit a canopy pole of the building instead and did little damage. Reports that Arab immigrants had been cheering at a local supermarket after the towers collapsed (a frequent rumor around the country) were investigated and turned out to be false. So were the dozens of rumors of Arabs mysteriously disappearing from their homes just before the attack.

    “I feel sorry for the dark-skinned people in the neighborhood. They’ve done nothing wrong, and most have been cooperative.”


    — POLICE OFFICER

    The police say they have been working closely with two of the three mosques in the area. One is run by an Irishman who converted to Islam and became an imam, the other by a baggage handler for American Airlines. This latter fact, not surprisingly, aroused a great interest at first. His friends in the community thought he might lose his job. But the imam is backed by the airline and remains close to the police in the area. “I feel sorry for the dark-skinned people in the neighborhood,” says a police officer. “They’ve done nothing wrong, and most have been cooperative.”

    It’s that context that makes the story of the Pakistani freshman so strange. I can’t tell you who filled in the details for me; the heat is on, and the FBI is particularly jumpy. Both teacher and student have, with the help of the school, successfully ducked all efforts to contact them. But here’s what I’ve pieced together:

    On Sept. 6—five days before the attack—Antoinette DiLorenzo, who teaches English as a second language to a class of Pakistani immigrants, led a class discussion about world events. She asked a freshman (his name has been withheld): “What are you looking at?” The youth was peering out the third-floor window toward lower Manhattan. After he made the remark about the World Trade Center not being there next week, the teacher didn’t immediately think much of it, though it stuck in her mind.

    On Sept. 11, school was canceled after the attack and again the following day. On Thursday, Sept. 13, a clearly agitated DiLorenzo, saying she had been afraid to come forward, reported the incident to the principal’s office. “It scared the hell out of everyone,” according to a source at the school.

    The police and FBI were alerted and 12 NYPD officers entered the school and secured DiLorenzo’s classroom for three hours, locking the doors with the students inside. While the students were brought lunch and a movie and told to be calm, the youth in question and his older brother, a sophomore, were taken to be interrogated by the FBI, stationed at the police precinct nearby.

    DiLorenzo, the key to the believability of this story, was also questioned. She was described by school officials as having a superb and unblemished record in the New York school system. A police source described her as “100 percent credible.”

    Moreover, according to police, the youth confirmed having made the Sept. 6 statement about the towers. At the moment he did so, his older brother elbowed him, said he had been “kidding,” and the youth in question agreed. The younger brother seemed upset and said he was “having a bad day.” When asked why, he said that his father was supposed to come back from Pakistan that day. Further details of the interrogation are unclear, in part because the FBI is not discussing it.

    Because of the suspension of air travel, it took the father a few days to return. About a week after Sept. 11, the father visited the school and angrily asked why his sons had been interrogated by the authorities. He said that his family’s constitutional rights had been violated.

    Having done nothing wrong beyond spreading a rumor that turned out to be true, the student was returned to his classroom. He remains in the school.

    The FBI placed the boy’s family under surveillance but, according to sources, does not see a connection to the plot to blow up the towers. The case remains under investigation, but with thousands of leads, it doesn’t appear to be going anywhere.

    So what to make of all of this? There is no doubt in my mind that the story is true. But what does it mean?

    There are only three possibilities. One, the youth was clairvoyant. Two, the youth, knowing about the 1993 bombing, was just venting anger in a particularly timely way. Three, word of the attack on the World Trade Center was rumored in his neighborhood and he heard about it.

    Investigators don’t know what to believe. “It’s creepy,” one told me before I got on the subway to go back to the office. “But what the hell are we going to do about it now?”


    © 2003 Newsweek, Inc.


    © 2005 Newsweek, Inc.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]it's hard to move past it when we are interfering in the affairs of the ME more than ever. What happens when members of the new the Iraqi Army become the next 9-11 type terrorists? It's the same mistake all over again. I'm not interested in re-living the past I am interested in making this country safe going forward. I don't see how turning a secular Iraq into an Islamist Iraq makes us any safer.[/QUOTE]

    On this issue, we simply disagree. I do not see this Iraqi Army becoming the next 9/11 terrorists. You have to understand, we supported Bin Laden to take out Iran, but there wasnt a clear plan to give them something; we were just using them for the good of our country.

    I see the current situation as taking out a tyrannical leader and form of government that did pose a threat to us. (Again, that's how I see it). And instead of just wiping them out and leaving Iraq with nothing, we are giving them hope of a democracy. Whether that works is another issue altogether and if this new gov't fails, then Iraq could pose a threat in the future. But if this works, I dont see them wanting to take us out because there wouldnt be a reason.

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    [QUOTE=B-HOW]First part was well done. When is part 2?[/QUOTE]

    tonite at 9

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    [QUOTE=TheBrodyMan]On this issue, we simply disagree. I do not see this Iraqi Army becoming the next 9/11 terrorists. You have to understand, we supported Bin Laden to take out Iran, but there wasnt a clear plan to give them something; we were just using them for the good of our country.

    I see the current situation as taking out a tyrannical leader and form of government that did pose a threat to us. (Again, that's how I see it). And instead of just wiping them out and leaving Iraq with nothing, we are giving them hope of a democracy. Whether that works is another issue altogether and if this new gov't fails, then Iraq could pose a threat in the future. But if this works, I dont see them wanting to take us out because there wouldnt be a reason.[/QUOTE]

    at the time, in the 1980's, did we see Bin Ladin becoming USA public enemy number 1? No we thought he was a "freedom fighter" that would help us beat the Ruskies. No one thinks these things through long term.

    Your post is filled with alot of ifs and whethers and hopes - 1860 troops have died for the freedom we are giving to animals. Not humans. Animals.

    That's a pretty big price to pay for a bunch of what if's, whether or not's, and I hopes.

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