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Thread: Robertson calls for assassination of Chavez

  1. #1
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    Robertson calls for assassination of Chavez

    [QUOTE][url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050823/pl_nm/venezuela_robertson_dc[/url]



    By Jackie Frank Tue Aug 23, 7:14 PM ET

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Conservative U.S. evangelist Pat Robertson called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, but top U.S. officials denied on Tuesday that any such illegal act was being contemplated.
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    Venezuelan officials said Robertson's remarks were "a call to terrorism," and demanded
    President George W. Bush condemn his political ally and fellow Christian conservative. But Chavez, who was winding up a three-day visit to communist ally Cuba, told reporters he didn't care about Robertson. "I don't even know who this person is."

    Robertson, the founder of the Christian Coalition and a presidential candidate in 1988, said Chavez, one of Bush's most vocal critics, was a "terrific danger" to the United States and intended to become "the launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism."

    "We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability," Robertson said during Monday broadcast of his religious "The 700 Club" program.

    "We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator," he continued. "It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."

    SILENT WHITE HOUSE

    Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld dismissed Robertson's remarks, but the White House remained silent despite calls for repudiation from Venezuela and religious leaders including the Rev.
    Jesse Jackson.

    "Certainly it's against the law. Our department doesn't do that type of thing," Rumsfeld told reporters.

    Both he and State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the remarks were from a private citizen and did not represent the U.S. government position. "Private citizens say all kinds of things all the time," Rumsfeld added.

    McCormack added, "Any accusations or any idea that we are planning to take hostile action against Venezuela or the Venezuelan government -- any ideas in that regard are totally without fact and baseless."

    Venezuela's ambassador to Washington, Bernardo Alvarez, said Bush needs to guarantee Chavez's safety at next month's
    United Nations meeting in New York.

    "Mr Robertson has been one of this president's staunchest allies. His statement demands the strongest condemnation by the White House," Alvarez said.

    In Caracas, Venezuelan Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel said, "This is a huge hypocrisy to maintain an anti-terrorist line and at the same time have such terrorist statements as these made by Christian preacher Pat Robertson coming from the same country."

    The leftist Chavez has often accused the United States of plotting his overthrow or assassination. Alongside Cuban President
    Fidel Castro in Havana on Sunday, Chavez scoffed at the idea that he and Castro were destabilizing troublemakers.

    Chavez survived a short-lived coup in 2002 that he says was backed by the United States. Washington denies involvement.

    'CHEAPER THAN STARTING A WAR'

    Chavez was first elected in 1998 and won a referendum on his rule last year. Polls show he would be re-elected in 2006. Venezuela is the world's fifth largest oil exporting country and a major supplier to the United States.

    In his broadcast, Robertson said: "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it.

    "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."

    The comments hearkened back to a long history of U.S. political and military interventions in Latin America including the invasions of Grenada in 1983 and Haiti in 1994, attempts to assassinate Castro and a
    CIA-backed coup in Chile in 1973.

    Political assassination as U.S. policy has been prohibited since 1976.

    Despite the attention by government officials, media and religious leaders, Robertson made no further comment.

    Jackson called Robertson's remarks "morally degenerate" and said Bush and Secretary of State
    Condoleezza Rice "cannot be silent on such a suggestion by one who has had such a relationship with the White House." He plans to meet with religious leaders in Venezuela next week.

    This was only the most recent explosive Robertson remark. Criticizing the State Department in 2003, he said "maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up."

    Robertson's "700 Club" reaches an average 1 million American viewers daily, according to his Web site. [/QUOTE]

    So, sooooooooo many things come into my mind about this.
    1)I wonder in which part of the Bible it says "thou shalt kill thy political enemies"
    2) Why should a democratically-elected leader be assassinated? Especially one who is very popular. Bush could only dream of being as popular as Chavez.
    3)The US really has a great of history of replacing democratically-elected leaders with handpicked dictators in South America. We should definitely try it again.
    4)Once again, the Bible. How does Robertson get to call himself a Christian and how many people are retarded enough to think this scumbag is actually a true Christian?

  2. #2
    [QUOTE=curtisthegreat]So, sooooooooo many things come into my mind about this.
    1)I wonder in which part of the Bible it says "thou shalt kill thy political enemies"
    2) Why should a democratically-elected leader be assassinated? Especially one who is very popular. Bush could only dream of being as popular as Chavez.
    3)The US really has a great of history of replacing democratically-elected leaders with handpicked dictators in South America. We should definitely try it again.
    4)Once again, the Bible. How does Robertson get to call himself a Christian and how many people are retarded enough to think this scumbag is actually a true Christian?[/QUOTE]

    i think sd99 would tell you that this is the mark of a true good christian just like his buddy dubya.

  3. #3
    Where are the Christian rt wing repubs defending this one? Pat robertson is an idiot and is often undefendable! Remember his wonderful 9/11 comments, this guy is the base of the christian rt! Love the glaring hypocrisy.

    Rt wingers consistently attack the zealots of democrats like moore etc.. Where is the same response to your own party's morons!

    I honestly I want to hear you guys spin this one?!Cmon cbtny and that idiot NE hick defend robertson's statements! Guess you cant really?

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=glennobr]Where are the Christian rt wing repubs defending this one? Pat robertson is an idiot and is often undefendable! Remember his wonderful 9/11 comments, this guy is the base of the christian rt! Love the glaring hypocrisy.

    Rt wingers consistently attack the zealots of democrats like moore etc.. Where is the same response to your own party's morons!

    I honestly I want to hear you guys spin this one?!Cmon cbtny and that idiot NE hick defend robertson's statements! Guess you cant really?[/QUOTE]

    countdown til cbtny brings up clinton...

  5. #5
    I dont suppose he will be running for president again. He probably wont be receiving any diplomatic appointments anytime soon, either.


    :cool:

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=glennobr]Where are the Christian rt wing repubs defending this one? Pat robertson is an idiot and is often undefendable! Remember his wonderful 9/11 comments, this guy is the base of the christian rt! Love the glaring hypocrisy.

    Rt wingers consistently attack the zealots of democrats like moore etc.. Where is the same response to your own party's morons!

    I honestly I want to hear you guys spin this one?!Cmon cbtny and that idiot NE hick defend robertson's statements! Guess you cant really?[/QUOTE]

    Unlike Michael Moore-On, Pat Robertson isn't worshipped by Republicans...

    I don't think too many people in the Republican Party support Pat Robertson or many of his views. He ran for the Republican nomination and garnered very little support.

    That being said, he is a private citizen who is entitled to his views.

    Chavez is an enemy of the USA who is trying to spread communism through out South America with Fidel Castro's blessing.... If it actually came down to assasinating him or having American soldiers fighting in the jungles of Central and South America, I say Smoke 'em.....
    Last edited by DeanPatsFan; 08-24-2005 at 07:42 AM.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=New England Hick] I say Smoke 'em.....[/QUOTE]
    I say smoke 'em, too. Show them who's boss. It's not like he means well for the gringos. Chavez made it very clear - [I]he's against us[/I].

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=glennobr]Where are the Christian rt wing repubs defending this one? Pat robertson is an idiot and is often undefendable! Remember his wonderful 9/11 comments, this guy is the base of the christian rt! Love the glaring hypocrisy.

    Rt wingers consistently attack the zealots of democrats like moore etc.. Where is the same response to your own party's morons!

    I honestly I want to hear you guys spin this one?!Cmon cbtny and that idiot NE hick defend robertson's statements! Guess you cant really?[/QUOTE]

    There are idiots on both sides Robertson/Moore. I dont see Robertsons quotes being embraced by the Republican party. Now if he gets knocked off-even if its done internally without US intervention, there will be an angry anti-US reaction--Nice going Pat.
    Most mainstream Repubs -I think- take his comments as radical at best.

    I as a Repub will not defend this idiot who unfortunately aligns himself with my party. I however very rarely see Dems acknowledging the same reaction towards Moore.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=glennobr]Where are the Christian rt wing repubs defending this one? Pat robertson is an idiot and is often undefendable! Remember his wonderful 9/11 comments, this guy is the base of the christian rt! Love the glaring hypocrisy.

    Rt wingers consistently attack the zealots of democrats like moore etc.. Where is the same response to your own party's morons!

    I honestly I want to hear you guys spin this one?!Cmon cbtny and that idiot NE hick defend robertson's statements! Guess you cant really?[/QUOTE]

    You posted this last night at almost 1am. Where are we? How about "asleep", like when you have to get up for work the next day?

    It was a stupid thing to say - we should be talking about taking out the leader of Iran, not Venezuela. ;)

    Anyway, we need people like this and Tancredo - it makes our enemies stop and think that maybe we're willing to play the same way they do.

  10. #10
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    A few weeks ago Robertson was preying for another vacancy on the Supreme Court. I didn't know Christians rooted for people to die.

  11. #11
    im gonna come right out and say that i would support an assassination/special forces action in Venesuela far more than I would support conventional military action. The same could be said about Iraq and Afghanistan.

    People have this odd justification for military murder that they don't have for one-on-one murder. It doesn't make sense. All murder is murder, regardless of whether there was a full military action behind it.

    Not only that but we are fighting a new kind of enemy one that does not have the trappings of conventional warfare - yet we still move in the infantry as if it was 1941 again. Its outdated and prone to failure.

    So if you ask me I think they should use special forces and secret tactics to take out leaders/terrorists whoever. It would probably be more effective and it would definately be cheaper.

  12. #12
    Pat Robertson is a tool and most clear thinking conservatives know this. Rumsfeld and McClellan have already condemned what he said. Both parties have a lunitic fringe. The differrence between the Reps and the Dems is that the Reps humor the Christian right and try not to p!$$ them off, but condemn them when they get out of line, like Robertson. The Dems seem to embrace their wackos and give them prominent roles, like voting them to head the DNC or letting them sit next to Carter at their convention.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=New England Hick]Unlike Michael Moore-On, Pat Robertson isn't worshipped by Republicans...

    I don't think too many people in the Republican Party support Pat Robertson or many of his views. He ran for the Republican nomination and garnered very little support.

    That being said, he is a private citizen who is entitled to his views.

    Chavez is an enemy of the USA who is trying to spread communism through out South America with Fidel Castro's blessing.... If it actually came down to assasinating him or having American soldiers fighting in the jungles of Central and South America, I say Smoke 'em.....[/QUOTE]

    Nor will you see Robertson sitting in the Presidential suite with a former President at a major party event...

    Robertson is a dope but like you said Hick, Chavez must be dealt with...it is a known fact he has financially supported OBL:

    [QUOTE]High-level military defectors reveal new terrorist links between Al Qaeda and Venezuelan strongman Hugo Chavez. The man who controls the largest oil reserves in the Western hemisphere gave $1 million to the world's most wanted terrorist right after the 9/11 attacks.

    Hugo Chavez would not admit it publicly, but in private, he was very impressed with Osama Bin Laden's work. The Venezuelan strongman publicly rails against the United States and "neo-liberal capitalism" which, according to him, represents "hell on earth". He has never visited the White House, but has instead been to China, Libya, Iraq, and Havana, Cuba.

    The doublespeak of Hugo Chavez served him particularly well in the aftermath of 9/11. In the 48 hours following the terrorist attack he vanished from sight. But when he finally did speak, he first assured the foreign press that he was against terrorism. However, locally, in his first TV broadcast, he then stated that "The United States brought the attacks upon itself, for their arrogant imperialist foreign policy." And in private, he went further still; proclaiming admiration for the terrorist attacks. " - With 9/11, Bin Laden showed the whole world that he was a force to be reckoned with. This impressed Hugo to no end," remembers General Pedro Pereira, the highest-ranking general in the Venezuelan airforce, who was still a Chavez loyalist in 2001.

    The day after the attack, September 12, Chavez supporters publicly burned the Stars and Stripes in the main square of Caracas in an outburst of gleeful satisfaction over the attacks. The organizer of the Plaza Bolivar protest, Lina Ron (a.k.a. "Rosa", born 9/23/59 in Anaco, AnzoŠtegui state), received public praise from Chavez. Unknown to the press, Lina Ninette Ron Pereira had been on the payroll of Caracas governor Hernan Gruber Odreman, ever since Chavez appointed him head of the Distrito Federal in 1999. She is still employed by Chavez, today working for Caracas borough mayor Freddy Bernal of Chavez's MVR party. There, she is in charge of a "cultural center" which mobilizes masses for pro-Chavez demonstrations and is active in breaking up opposition events.

    $1M for Al Qaeda to fight against the United States But Chavez did not stop at merely praising the attacks and having his support groups burn the American flag. He wanted to do more. He wanted to help Al Qaeda and the Taliban in their coming war against the United States.

    Juan Diaz Castillo from Venezuela's Air Force, was given that job. The private pilot of Hugo Chavez, Major Diaz Castillo has since defected and has started to talk. As the trusted insider who flew the president's Airbus, he was an eye-witness to secret meetings between Chavez and some of the top dictators in the world. He was also in charge of organizing one million dollars worth of assistance from Chavez to Al Qaeda.

    " - Chavez trusted me completely. So right after 9/11, when he decided to help Al Qaeda, he turned me."

    The work, as ordered by Chavez, was to help Al Qaeda but to make it look like he was helping the Taliban, using humanitarian grounds as the excuse.

    " - Initially, the plan was not to give them money. Instead, I was asked to organize a shipment of food and clothing and send it to the government of Afghanistan." At that time, the government of Afghanistan was the Taliban. But everyone knew that the Taliban and Al Qaeda were just two sides of the same coin. The Taliban-controlled areas of Afghanistan had emerged as the breeding ground for terrorists and extremist groups and the largest source of opium productions and illegal flow of narcotics in the world, posing a serious threat to the peace and stability of the whole region. " - Chavez saw in Afghanistan a mirror of what he was trying to implement in Venezuela, and wanted a more direct opening with the Al Qaeda organization," says the Major. "He had already tried to contact them once before, in Libya, but when he personally visited Tripoli, Col. Muammar Qaddafi told Chavez that there was no direct channel of communications between him and Al Qaeda."

    The aid to the Al Qaeda's camps was supposed to open the channel of communications directly. It was a way of telling Osama Bin Laden that he had a friend in Hugo Chavez.

    Air Force Major Diaz Castillo started planning the logistics of sending three Hercules C-130 cargo planes from Venezuela to Afghanistan. The effort would require a large investment in time and personnel, with refueling stops on the way. He came to the conclusion that to transport the cargo to the Taliban and Al Qaeda would be more expensive than the cargo itself.

    Involved in the plan was Diosdado Cabello, at the time Chavez's Chief of Staff, the foreign minister and the defense minister. They had a number of meetings, among others with the director of Civil Defense. After hearing from Diaz Castillo of the difficulties with the C-130's, Diosdado Cabello then decided to instead send $1M in cash to Venezuela's ambassador for the region, Dr Walter Marquez. He would then be entrusted with bringing it to Afghanistan. The doctor - a sinister, wheelchair-bound figure - operates out of an office located at N-114, Panchshila Park, New Delhi, in India. He received the cash in the last week of September, 2001.

    When asked at the time about his involvement, Marquez confirmed that he was in charge. " - Venezuela does not have diplomatic representation in Pakistan or Afghanistan but it is within my purview."

    On October 3, 2001, a representative of the Venezuelan government then contacted Kris Janowski of the UNHCR in Pakistan. The purpose: To create a cover story of humanitarian help for the Taliban, so that there would be plausible deniability in case anyone asked about the Al Qaeda money. According to the plan, Walter Marquez would buy and transport food from New Delhi (India) or Teheran (Iran) where Venezuela has embassies.

    False identities for terrorist operatives After Walter Marquez completed his mission, the million-dollar financing bore fruit. A line of communication to Caracas opened up.

    " - The handling was then taken over by Carlos Otaiza [brother of Army Captain Elieza Otaiza Castillo, former head of Chavez's DISIP secret service.] So after that, I no longer dealt with them," says Major Diaz Castillo. But from his vantage point in the presidential palace, he still saw a lot of what was going on: " - In the last few months of 2001, and all throughout 2002, more and more Arabs started arriving. They were always given special treatment by Chavez, Otaiza and Ramon Rodriguez Chacin". Rodriguez Chacin was a Chavez-government cabinet member, and headed the Interior and Justice Ministry until the press proved that he operated with multiple identities. He is currently a party boss in the Chavez political machine.

    The "special treatment" afforded to visiting Arabs even extended to fugitives. As documented by General Marcos Ferreira former head of the Onidex passport and ID-card administration and now a member of the country's pro-democracy resistance movement, Chavez-minister Rodriguez Chacin ordered him to provide false ID's to named members of foreign terrorist organizations listed by the FBI.

    Now, these facts are coming out, and the military resisters are in danger. Major Juan Diaz Castillo and fellow pro-democracy resister General Nestor Gonzalez Gonzalez were the victims of a trap set by Chavez DISIP (Secret Service) agents on December 16, 2002, on the freeway between Valencia and Caracas, near the town of Guacara. Immediately following the attempt on his life, Juan Diaz Castillo went underground. Friends in the resistence movement smuggled him out of the country the night before Christmas, in the hull of a fishing boat leaving Venezuela for Curazao, in the Dutch Antilles. There, he stayed until he could arrange safe passage to the United States. Today, safely out of reach of the Chavez death squads, he can now talk freely.

    " - I must warn America about Chavez. He is a danger, not just to his own people but to the whole region," says Diaz Castillo.

    Hugo Chavez is growing increasingly desperate in his hold on power, in Venezuela where a month-long general strike has cut off oil exports and his source of income. He refuses to hold free and democratic elections, and has publicly vowed to stay in power until "at least 2021". To Chavez, it matters not what his people think: " - Referendum to remove me? That is not possible, don't waste time. I will not go in a referendum, I say that to the country and the world. It's like this: I won't go," Hugo Chavez said in November. " - Ah, no, no, forget about fairytales." " - Not even if we suppose that they hold that referendum and get 90% of the votes, I will not leave. Forget it. I will not leave." This, all, from the man who personally visited Saddam Hussein in Iraq, hugged him, and called him "my brother," and then gave one million dollars to Al Qaeda right after 9/11.
    [/QUOTE]

    of course I fuuly expect the libs and leftitst on this board to stand up for Ugo...

  14. #14
    "im gonna come right out and say that i would support an assassination/special forces action in Venesuela far more than I would support conventional military action. The same could be said about Iraq and Afghanistan. "

    I don't disagree w/ this (although Robertson is still a tool). Most of the early fighting in Afghanistan was done by special forces. They basically hooked up w/ the Northern Alliance. Lit up targets w/ infared lights so the pilots knew who the bad guys were. Bombed the s**t out of them, and let the northern alliance finish them off. I guess the problem w/ this stage of the war is we can't identify who the bad guys are anymore.

    Last night on Fox news, 2 of their military analysts were on basically agreeing w/ Bit. Iraq needs more special forces to both identify/take out the bad guys and train the army & police force. The conventional army should not be used for this role, but more for trying to police the borders.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=kevin45]
    Last night on Fox news, 2 of their military analysts were on basically agreeing w/ Bit. Iraq needs more special forces to both identify/take out the bad guys and train the army & police force. The conventional army should not be used for this role, but more for trying to police the borders.[/QUOTE]

    most people don't realize that the big security companies like Blackwater and Triple Canopy are mostly comprised of former Delta Force, SEAL and other special forces. These guys are badasses of the highest caliber and get all the tough jobs in Iraq (for example keeping the consitutional congress alive).

    Roughly 25% of the DoD Iraq budget goes to these Private Security Consultants (a.k.a. PSC's) and the affect of these guys on the war effort cannot be underestimated. There are also British, Israeli and South African equivalents on the ground.

    There was a story about how in 1998 the nation of Sierra Leone was in the midst of a violent rebellion - people were getting their hands cut off - that gov't hired a PSC from South Africa and with only 200 members they quelled a rebellion of roughly 18000 militants.

    Needless to say without these guys on the ground, essentially Special Forces, Iraq would be a complete debacle, much worse than it is right now. In a sense the special forces are already there - people just don't know how important their role is.

    ---

    Strategically speaking I believe we don't scare enough people. For example terrorists can play nice with the US troops during the day and at night become insurgents. I think that if we instituted cold blooded night assassinations as a policy the fear that would generate would something - maybe the only thing - that these animals would respect. People don't respect you when you try to build them a school or repair their electricity. They will respect you if they don't know when they put their head on the pillow whether they will wake up the next day.

    we've become too slow-moving too predictable. How about instead of declaring Osama Bin Ladin public enemy number 1 and giving him a 6 month head start, just pretend to ignore him - i guaruntee that ego maniac would be in public giving speeches just like the late 90s again. And that's where the hit squads come in. Take out the trash and leave nothing alive in their wake.

    Forget 140k infantry, bombing campaigns and supply lines, this entire Iraq war could have been fought far more effectively and efficiently with 3000 badasses like the Delta Force/PSCs that were ghosts by day and stone cold ninja killers at night.

    So in essense I agree with Pat Robertson from the stand point that we tried the traditional way of doing things, it was a clusterf--k what do we have to lose by terrorizing the terrorists? It actually might work.
    Last edited by bitonti; 08-24-2005 at 11:07 AM.

  16. #16
    All you need to know about Chavez.

    [url]http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/09/chavez.invasion.ap/[/url]

    [url]http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E903D3CD-F65A-45B8-91CE-9956EE5C0169.htm[/url]

    [url]http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/5/1/81915.shtml[/url]

    [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/23/wchavez23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/08/23/ixworld.html[/url]

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=bitonti]im gonna come right out and say that i would support an assassination/special forces action in Venesuela far more than I would support conventional military action. The same could be said about Iraq and Afghanistan.

    People have this odd justification for military murder that they don't have for one-on-one murder. It doesn't make sense. All murder is murder, regardless of whether there was a full military action behind it.

    Not only that but we are fighting a new kind of enemy one that does not have the trappings of conventional warfare - yet we still move in the infantry as if it was 1941 again. Its outdated and prone to failure.

    So if you ask me I think they should use special forces and secret tactics to take out leaders/terrorists whoever. It would probably be more effective and it would definately be cheaper.[/QUOTE]

    Perfectly stated.

  18. #18
    "There was a story about how in 1998 the nation of Sierra Leone was in the midst of a violent rebellion - people were getting their hands cut off - that gov't hired a PSC from South Africa and with only 200 members they quelled a rebellion of roughly 18000 militants. "

    Yeah, I saw this on the history channel. I think they were called "Executive Outcomes". Like you said they kicked a$$ and restored order w/ only 200 men. They said the rebels were so disorganized that they would retreat w/ even the slightest confrontation. The UN was embarrassed that a small group could do the job that the UN peace keepers could not. They pressured the gov't to fire EO and the rebels wound up forcing the gov't to negotiate w/ them.

    Anyhow I hope unlike the UN the U.S. can admit their stategic mistakes start using more special forces and less convetional forces. At this stage of the war Iraq needs a scalpel and not a sword.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=kevin45]
    Yeah, I saw this on the history channel. I think they were called "Executive Outcomes". [/QUOTE]


    yeah right on the money. What a great name for a PSC "Executive Outcomes" :D

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY]Nor will you see Robertson sitting in the Presidential suite with a former President at a major party event...

    Robertson is a dope but like you said Hick, Chavez must be dealt with...it is a known fact he has financially supported OBL:



    of course I fuuly expect the libs and leftitst on this board to stand up for Ugo...[/QUOTE]


    Dude - where did you find that stuff on Chavez? I've never seen/heard/read that stuff before. You ARE Mr. Reference! :eek:

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