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Thread: Sorry to Start a New Thread- Thought This was Interesting

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    Sorry to Start a New Thread- Thought This was Interesting

    [url]http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/13/katrina.rice/index.html[/url]

    any opinions? or comments? It is getting strange. Last week Rice said Race had nothing to do with it. I am not accusing or trying to start anything. just want to hear people's opinions.

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    I was reading some more Hurricane Katrina news stories from England today. They're not at all talking about racism. They're talking about what Engish tourists stuck in New Orleans actually experienced.

    Race [I]was[/I] involved, however.

    Weird!

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    [QUOTE=AlbanyJet]I was reading some more Hurricane Katrina news stories from England today. They're not at all talking about racism. They're talking about what Engish tourists stuck in New Orleans actually experienced.

    Race [I]was[/I] involved, however.

    Weird![/QUOTE]
    No offense, but this really isn't about England or their tourists. Whatever they went through sucked I am sure, but I am just trying to figure out where this administration stands on this being a race issue or not.

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    Didn't want to start a new thread, so since this one seems unpopular, I thought I would take the time to Thank You guys. Thanks for welcoming me, for the most part, to your Political Disucussions. I am going home now, and wanted to say thanks, and apologize if I was obnoxious today. I don't know any of your personally, so any insults were strickly heat of the moment.

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    I thought the War on Poverty started with the Lyndon Johnson administration and billions have been spent. You can't teach people ambition. Look at Clarence Thomas - he had a tough life growing up and look what he's done. Self-reliance used to be the American way, and it still is for most; even recent immigrants will tell you that working hard will get you somewhere. How often do you read about people from 3rd world countries coming here, working 80 hours a week in 7-11 and then starting their own businesses? Its up to the individual to decide they want something better in life.

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    [QUOTE=quantum]I thought the War on Poverty started with the Lyndon Johnson administration and billions have been spent. You can't teach people ambition. Look at Clarence Thomas - he had a tough life growing up and look what he's done. Self-reliance used to be the American way, and it still is for most; even recent immigrants will tell you that working hard will get you somewhere. How often do you read about people from 3rd world countries coming here, working 80 hours a week in 7-11 and then starting their own businesses? Its up to the individual to decide they want something better in life.[/QUOTE]
    I think you have a point to an extent. I feel like everyone could use help from the outside to really get them on their feet. I am not sure how many stories there are about someone coming to this country, working in a 7-11 and then winding up in a huge house with no worries, like some of these big business CEO's. I believe that the gap between what a CEO of an American company makes compared to the bottom level worker is the highest in the world. It just doesn't seem fair. It lends itself to the necesity of help.

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    Granted, the CEOs of American companies are way overpaid, but I wouldn't justify that for the help you mention. I"m a big believer in college scholarships based on intelligence and ambition - giving someone the opportunity they might normally have. But why waste that money on someone who may drop out or who has lousy test scores?

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    [QUOTE=quantum]Granted, the CEOs of American companies are way overpaid, but I wouldn't justify that for the help you mention. I"m a big believer in college scholarships based on intelligence and ambition - giving someone the opportunity they might normally have. But why waste that money on someone who may drop out or who has lousy test scores?[/QUOTE]
    Well, alot of these people who have lousy test scores only have them because they live in horrible neighborhoods where the schools don't teach them jack. My girlfriend, who has never taught in her life, was being begged by the city of NY to be a grade school teacher for high needs kids. they just aren't provided the basic nessecities for these kids to have a chance.

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    [QUOTE=Sack Exchange]Well, alot of these people who have lousy test scores only have them because they live in horrible neighborhoods where the schools don't teach them jack. My girlfriend, who has never taught in her life, was being begged by the city of NY to be a grade school teacher for high needs kids. they just aren't provided the basic nessecities for these kids to have a chance.[/QUOTE]

    Talking to the city teachers I know, the story is a little different: parents that don't care, kids that think they don't need school, almost no discipline. All things that money can't buy.

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    Message over Superdome PA system:

    “Good afternoon, everyone. My name is John Smith and I’m the general manager here at the New Orleans Superdome. As you all know, the Superdome is the last option from fleeing a hurricane.

    Just a couple of rules I’d like to point out. First of all there’s no smoking inside the dome. There’s also no standing in the aisles.

    Oh, and please no stabbing, no raping of young girls, no smoking crack and definitely please do not murder anyone.

    Thank you and let’s pull together and help each other get through this difficult time.”

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    I think the confusion might be between the fact that race and poverty tend to go hand in hand and whether or not the response time to NOLA was delayed because of race. Two separate issues. I don't think Rice has said anything counter to anything else she's said.

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    [QUOTE=quantum]Talking to the city teachers I know, the story is a little different: parents that don't care, kids that think they don't need school, almost no discipline. All things that money can't buy.[/QUOTE]
    My experience, too. The key is "parents don't care". When parents care the worst neighborhoods in America can routinely raise amazing successes, if not, great people - and I welcome anyone to try and challenge that statement. IF PARENTS CARE. Not "if the government cares". Massive difference.

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    [QUOTE=sackdance]My experience, too. The key is "parents don't care". When parents care the worst neighborhoods in America can routinely raise amazing successes, if not, great people - and I welcome anyone to try and challenge that statement. IF PARENTS CARE. Not "if the government cares". Massive difference.[/QUOTE]
    This point is somewhat moot, because it is a cycle. The parents were once the kids not getting the necessary education. So how the heck are they supposed to care? I mean if they weren't taught that education is important how are they going to spread that message?

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    [QUOTE=Sack Exchange]This point is somewhat moot, because it is a cycle. The parents were once the kids not getting the necessary education. So how the heck are they supposed to care? I mean if they weren't taught that education is important how are they going to spread that message?[/QUOTE]


    Because people are not kids for their entire lives. People grow up. People are able to learn from their mistakes, people are able to recognize the value of education even if they missed out on one and often, precisely BECAUSE they've missed out on one and do not wish to have their children end up the same way, people are able to express regret at the choices they have made and to gain wisdom through failure...in order to pass on their knowledge to their children. Most parents want their kids to have better lives they they do themselves.

    Some people break out of the cycle and some do not. Excusing the behavior and destructive choices of people as not being their fault because of some perceived obstruction (racism, a "they don't know any better" type of soft bigotry, etc) is not going to solve anything.

    People need to take control of their lives and stop being told that everything and anything that they do is OK. They need people to stop making excuses for them. Black people need to lower their illegitimacy rates, period. No government program is going to change that behavior...especially not if the government tells them that they are victims and that nothing they do is their fault becuase they don't know any better. That's insulting!

    There are three things that give people a tremendous advantage in the struggle to rise above poverty - a high school diploma, being raised in a two-parent household, and not getting married in your teen years. People who do/have these things have a much, much better chance of escaping poverty regardless of where they go to high school or how poor or rich their parents are.

    People need to look inward - blacks, whites, parents, teachers, etc.

    The government is completely inept - look at Katrina. You think a good strategy is excusing destructive behavior and waiting around for the government to save them? Ain't gonna happen, that's a fact jack!
    Last edited by jets5ever; 09-15-2005 at 06:14 PM.

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