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Thread: Katrina's Next Victim - American labor...Bush and Haliburton chump American labor....

  1. #1

    Katrina's Next Victim - American labor...Bush\Haliburton connection again....

    I now Bitonti and Section won't have a hard time believing this:


    ***July of 2004*** A subsidiary of Haliburton (KBR) won a competitive bid contract to provide debris removal and other emergency work associated with natural disasters. In a real sense KBR was sitting atop a gold mine that they could only tap if a major disaster like Katrina occurred.


    *** Sept 6, 2005 *** The DHS announced that it will not require employers to use I-9 forms. The I-9 form is used by employers to verify that their employees are eligible to work in the United States. Without the I-9 requirement employers will be able to hire illegal aliens without the fear they could be sanctioned. As we all know the I-9 form doesn't do much to deter unscrupulous employers from hiring illegal aliens, but now even that tiny amount of regulation is gone.


    *** Sept 8, 2005 *** U.S. President [b]George W. Bush issued an executive order allowing federal contractors rebuilding in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to pay below the prevailing wage[/b] :steamin:


    Whole, unbelievable article: [url]http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=25536[/url]
    Last edited by Riggins44; 09-15-2005 at 06:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Frankly, I'm shocked.

  3. #3
    haha this is old news but is it any suprise??

    The sad thing is there are still MANY people who think Bush is a good president

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=TheTerminator]haha this is old news but is it any suprise??

    The sad thing is there are still MANY people who think Bush is a good president[/QUOTE]

    you don't even have to go that far...

    The sad thing is there are still MANY people who think Bush doesn't openly abuse his powers to reward his connections

  5. #5
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    No one has the balls to defend this decision?

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=Section109Row15]No one has the balls to defend this decision?[/QUOTE]


    How can they Section? There is no way Bush's JI bootlickers can defend any of this.

    Let's get this straight: This man claims to want to help the people of Louisiana, where unemployement is rampant and despair is everywhere.

    Yet, behind the scenes, he concocts a scheme to allow Haliburton the right to hire all illegal alien labor at "below market rates" :O

    BTY, I saw 1 neo-con, slimebag on Fox News trying to defend Bush, saying people in Louisiana may "lack construction and work skills, forcing the gov't to hire out of state" :rolleyes:

    As someone who worked construction all through high school and college and a bit after, I can tell this fool and his Fox News cronies that a ton of the construction and cleanup jobs will mostly be "laborer jobs", done by just about anyone willing to work.

    The power play here is merely a scheme to scam the Louisana people, desperate for a job and restoration of dignity, into accepting much lower wages in order to line pockets of Haliburton :steamin:

  7. #7
    [QUOTE]*** Sept 8, 2005 *** U.S. President George W. Bush issued an executive order allowing federal contractors rebuilding in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to pay below the prevailing wage[/QUOTE]

    It's wrong, not only because it screws La people willing to work, but if this promotes hiring illegals, it is a slap in the face to all.

  8. #8
    Presidential approval rating among all Americans: 40%

    Presidential approval rating among Halliburton stockholders: 100%

  9. #9
    Jets Insider VIP
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    For expediancy and economic reasons, it makes sense; as PR goes, it dopey.

    Well, I'm off to lick some boots.... :rolleyes:

  10. #10
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    Contractors being allowed to pay wages that they see fit - the horror!!

    Riggins - here's a simple lesson for you:

    When people compete for scare things like jobs, that competition drives wages down. When companies compete for workers, that drives wages up. Down there, more people need work than there are jobs to go around, so wages naturally go down. If the companies are forced to pay an artificially-imposed high wage (the euphemism of "prevailing wage" or "minimum wage" is what that really is) they are simply going to hire fewer people and more total people are going to be out of work.

    The choice for unemployed people is to not work or to work at a lower wage than they'd prefer. Nobody (nobody!) owes them anyhting. Nobody owes unions anything. Unions add to the unemployment problem in this country, as do minimum wage laws.

    There is no such thing as a free lunch. If companies were always allowed to pay wages that the market dictated, they'd be less likely to hire illegals to save money, since they could just pay American citizens the same wages they pay illegals nowadays. Low-skilled and un-skilled labor is a market where the supply simply dwarfs the demand. Minimum wage laws [B]add to this [/B] problem...even if they let sanctimonious commentators feel good about themselves. The minimum wage law or the theory of a "prevailing wage" is nonsense that has had a destructive impact on our society.


    The illegal problem is definitely a legit problem, but the entire apparatus of government is blind to this problem, not just Bush, though his attitude is atrocious.

    However, allowing a company to pay what they think a job is worth is no problem, it actually helps the people as a whole and reduces unemployment.

    Unskilled, low-quality workers are not going to have easy lives - no law or policy or politician is going to change that. If we impose higher costs of labor on companies from on high, they are simply going to hire less people. Miminum wage laws are good for the people who actually keep jobs, but companies lay off workers and hire less as a result. You cannot assume that other things will remain constant after such a violent change and changing incentives change behavior. The only reason people are misled about this issue is that the lucky ones who keep their jobs are organized and politically influencial (i.e. - unions) while the people who suffer are not organized and not a lobby group and thus no one pays attention to them.

    If people need work that badly, they should accept the wage that the market dictates.

    If a job is worth $3 an hour, and some wage law madates that the minium wage is $6 an hour, do you honestly think companies will keep the same amount of laborers and just allow their labor costs to double?? Only a fool thinks there are no consequences to such things. Eupemisms like "prevailing wage" and sanctimonious preaching make people feel good about themselves, but they are counter-productive.
    Last edited by jets5ever; 09-16-2005 at 09:33 AM.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=jets5ever]
    If people need work that badly, they should accept the wage that the market dictates.[/QUOTE]

    kudos to you 5ever for defending the faceless corporation over the impoverished working class.

    in other news Jets5ever wonders why the starving poor don't just eat Cake!

    [IMG]http://photos1.blogger.com/img/229/1083/1024/greed1.jpg[/IMG]

  12. #12
    Jets Insider VIP
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    The only alternative is some form of socialism/communism: someone flipping burgers at Burger King makes $40k per year for example. Is the job worth that? Nope; it would be wealth redistribution pure and simple. Capitalism is not fair in this respect, but IS fair in that anyone can play and anyone can be successful.

  13. #13
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    hey bit - get that from the Worker's Party website? ;)

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=jets5ever]Contractors being allowed to pay wages that they see fit - the horror!!

    Riggins - here's a simple lesson for you:

    When people compete for scare things like jobs, that competition drives wages down. When companies compete for workers, that drives wages up. Down there, more people need work than there are jobs to go around, so wages naturally go down. If the companies are forced to pay an artificially-imposed high wage (the euphemism of "prevailing wage" or "minimum wage" is what that really is) they are simply going to hire fewer people and more total people are going to be out of work.

    The choice for unemployed people is to not work or to work at a lower wage than they'd prefer. Nobody (nobody!) owes them anyhting. Nobody owes unions anything. Unions add to the unemployment problem in this country, as do minimum wage laws.

    There is no such thing as a free lunch. If companies were always allowed to pay wages that the market dictated, they'd be less likely to hire illegals to save money, since they could just pay American citizens the same wages they pay illegals nowadays. Low-skilled and un-skilled labor is a market where the supply simply dwarfs the demand. Minimum wage laws [b]add to this [/b]problem...even if they let sanctimonious commentators feel good about themselves. The minimum wage law or the theory of a "prevailing wage" is nonsense that has had a destructive impact on our society.


    The illegal problem is definitely a legit problem, but the entire apparatus of government is blind to this problem, not just Bush, though his attitude is atrocious.

    However, allowing a company to pay what they think a job is worth is no problem, it actually helps the people as a whole and reduces unemployment.

    Unskilled, low-quality workers are not going to have easy lives - no law or policy or politician is going to change that. If we impose higher costs of labor on companies from on high, they are simply going to hire less people. Miminum wage laws are good for the people who actually keep jobs, but companies lay off workers and hire less as a result. You cannot assume that other things will remain constant after such a violent change and changing incentives change behavior. The only reason people are misled about this issue is that the lucky ones who keep their jobs are organized and politically influencial (i.e. - unions) while the people who suffer are not organized and not a lobby group and thus no one pays attention to them.

    If people need work that badly, they should accept the wage that the market dictates.

    If a job is worth $3 an hour, and some wage law madates that the minium wage is $6 an hour, do you honestly think companies will keep the same amount of laborers and just allow their labor costs to double?? Only a fool thinks there are no consequences to such things. Eupemisms like "prevailing wage" and sanctimonious preaching make people feel good about themselves, but they are counter-productive.[/QUOTE]

    I would like to see you live off of minimum-wage let alone below minmimum wage. The only way to make it work is to live with 15+ relatives like the immigrants do.

    What do you think about companies like Halliburton who have "misplaced" millons of dollars in Iraq and who were found to be overcharging for meals for the troops? Add to that the no-bid process, and now they want the ability to charge less-than minimum wage, aka illegal immigrants. Where does it end? Would you allow companies prima-nocta(sp), in the name of free-markets?

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]kudos to you 5ever for defending the faceless corporation over the impoverished working class.

    in other news Jets5ever wonders why the starving poor don't just eat Cake!

    [IMG]http://photos1.blogger.com/img/229/1083/1024/greed1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

    You are a simpleton. I actually care more about results than I do about feeling morally superior to others or about good intentions. The policies you advocate hurt the people you so stupidly and smugly pretend to be "defending." The fact that you are arrogant about your ignorance is no shock - it's your MO.

    You are a guy who hates Wal-Mart, even though they provide jobs to unskilled laborers, keep inflation down and raise the purchasing power of poorer Americans. Wal-Mart helps the lower-class more than it does any other class - yet your self-righteous bloviating won't allow you to even consider that for a second, because you are too wedded to disproven, egalitarian notions of collectivism, a knee-jerk and juvenile opposition to corporations, a remedial understanding of economics and your inflated sense of your own inherent goodness.

    Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk and talk some more Bitonti. Meanwhile, people who actually do something, like the people who create jobs and tax revenue and economic growth and innovations (like Wal-Mart, Halliburton, drug companies, etc) will continue creating this fine country you live in, while you whine and whine.

    A "faceless corporation" is the only reason this site exists. If not for them, you wouldn't have such a nice, free forum to publicize your immaturity! :)

  16. #16
    these are strong words coming from a man that rues the end of the 18 hour work day for 6 year olds.

    but they are the only ones with hands little enough to polish the inside of the bullets!

    Free market baby!

    sigh If only things were simple like the way they used to be...

    [img]http://karaart.com/morris/Monopoly-Manp.jpg[/img]

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Section109Row15]I would like to see you live off of minimum-wage let alone below minmimum wage. The only way to make it work is to live with 15+ relatives like the immigrants do.

    What do you think about companies like Halliburton who have "misplaced" millons of dollars in Iraq and who were found to be overcharging for meals for the troops? Add to that the no-bid process, and now they want the ability to charge less-than minimum wage, aka illegal immigrants. Where does it end? Would you allow companies prima-nocta(sp), in the name of free-markets?[/QUOTE]

    No, a worker can get two jobs, if they want. They can start their own business if they want. They can do a lot of things. Would it be difficult? Sure, of course it would. But most people who earn minimum wage (or below) do not do so forever. People neglect the time factor whenever they talk about "the poor" etc. The overwhelming majority of people who are in the lowest 20% of income move up into the highest 20% within 10 or 14 years. Numeroues studies have shown this. People's incomes tend to rise as time passes. Yes, there are groups called "the poor" in 1990 and in 2000, but they are largely not the same specific people. If people are unskilled, they need to learn skills. Which is why our education system is a sick joke right now.

    You don't seem to grasp or want to deal with the fact that minimum wage laws increase unemployment. And who suffers? The least-skilled workers. If companies are forced to pay above the market price, they may as well and do hire people who are better than "the dregs." Ever ntice how it's hard to get into a lot of unions? So, who suffers? The worst, least-skilled workers, that's who!

    I understand that you feel for these people on a personal level, and that you sincerely just want to help. I share your thoughts. But minimum wages laws don't work, period.

    You work your way up and build a better life. It's what ALL imigrants did when they came here.


    Re- Halliburton...they go through the same audit process every other company goes through and they pay penalties as well, etc. I don't obssess over every little detail about Halliburton the way you do. I am not familiar with what you refer to. However, you misunderstand the "no-bid" process. It is more about speed. Negotiations take a long time. Halliburton had done this work in the past and has the inftrastructure and almost the unique espertise to do it again. The "no-bid" process hurts them, too, since they KNOW that the US gov can't hire any other company that is nearly as good or qualified, and they have to accept the no-bid amount. Who else is going to do this work, a foreign company, who won't pay as much in taxes or provide Americans with jobs? Becthel?? C'mon....

    COMPANIES SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHARGE WHAT THEY WANT. IF THEY WERE, THEY'D BE LESS LIKELY TO GO TO ILLEGALS BECAUSE THEY COULD PAY AMERICANS THE SAME WAGES.

    Do you think there is a correlation between the prevalance of minimum wage laws and the increased amount illegals who are employed? Do you think illegals would come here in the numbers they do now if companies didn't hire them, since they could simply hire Americans for the same price and not have to worry about legal issues, etc? What relationshipo do you think minimum wage has with all of this?? We can tighten up the borders all we want, but if illegals have incentives to come in (i.e. - jobs that Americans can't or won't do) than they'll still come in. If they begin to hear that there is no work, if minimum wages laws go away and Americans take these jobs, illegals may think twice about risking it, since there are no jobs anyway.

    We a two-pronged assault - tightening up the borders and getting rid of minimum wage laws, such that the job opportunities dry up for illegals. It's all about incentives....
    Last edited by jets5ever; 09-16-2005 at 10:01 AM.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]these are strong words coming from a man that rues the end of the 18 hour work day for 6 year olds.

    but they are the only ones with hands little enough to polish the inside of the bullets!

    Free market baby!

    sigh If only things were simple like the way they used to be...

    [img]http://karaart.com/morris/Monopoly-Manp.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

    Wow, you are a light-weight. You got into Bowdoin??

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=jets5ever]Wow, you are a light-weight. You got into Bowdoin??[/QUOTE]

    So did Hick - what does that prove?

    hey by the way did you hear I'm getting a new car? Not so good on gas but the b-tches love it

    [IMG]http://postcards.worldprofit.com/postcards/thumb/th_9236128-822.jpg[/IMG]

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=bitonti]So did Hick - what does that prove?

    hey by the way did you hear I'm getting a new car? Not so good on gas but the b-tches love it

    [IMG]http://postcards.worldprofit.com/postcards/thumb/th_9236128-822.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
    Nothing, I just used to think it was a good school! ;)

    Okay, that car thing was actually funny....

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