Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: Time for a change at HC

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    41,582

    Time for a change at HC

    Let me be clear, this is not a KILL HERM post

    The man was dealt a horrible hand this year with a plethora of injuries ... I knew this would be a LONG SEASON the moment Chad & Jay were both lost during the seasons first month, and I don't believe there's a coach on this planet who could have had a winning season following that disaster, but there are quite a few who could have kept us alive in this dreadful division where 8-8 may very well win it

    Having said that, I do believe Herm has LOST THE TEAM to some degree ... lost their attention and is no longer able to motivate this team week after week ... the players have heard it all, heard all of his motivational speeches, so to some degree it no longer has the same effect

    Pat Reilly wrote about this in his book ... Parcells and others have commented on this as well

    Reilly talked about leaving the Lakers when he could see that he was no longer able to motivate the team as he once had ... talked about that glazed look he would see in the players eyes when he tried to offer motivation, simply because they had heard it all before ... it was no longer new and exciting to the team, but instead old and tired

    Reilly said a coach has a window with modern athletes ... a window to win while his approach is still new and exciting ... but at some point that window closes and it's time to move on to another team where you can begin the process all over again with a new group of players

    That window closes, Reilly suggested, when you run out of anything new to say ... when you are simply recyling old speeches for the upteenth time, and it has clearly lost it's effect

    IMO that's where we are with Herman Edwards now ... the window is either closing or has already slammed shut ... so I believe the smart move, FOR HERM and THE ORGANIZATION, would be to part ways after this season has ended

    I'm sure Herm will hook up with another team and do well ... he'll be a playoff coach just as he was here ... he'll go somewhere else and it will all be new and exciting for his new players

    Ditto the Jets ... they'll bring someone in who brings with him a new energy and excitement ... hopefully Jeff Fisher if the rumors of his departure from Tennessee prove true, because I believe he's experiencing much the same in Tennesssee {it's time for a change}, but he's a terrific HC who will inject instant excitement into this organization if hired ... fresh start for Fisher and a fresh start for the Jets WITH FISHER

    If not Fisher there are other worthy candidates, I'm sure we'll find a Quality HC, but IMO it's time for a change

    Again, nothing against Herm who has done a nice job with the Jets when you look at his entire body of work ... NOT GREAT, but a NICE JOB ... I Just believe that right now it's the scenario Reilly described in his book, this thing has run it's course with Herman Edwards, the window is closed or rapidly closing, and thus it's time to make a change
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 11-14-2005 at 12:49 AM.

  2. #2
    All League
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,074
    And did you see the way the guy didn't even say a thing to Bolly after his first pick. Here's a kid, who may not have the talent, but was by damn trying his hardest to win for his team, and Herm just doesn't give a damn.

  3. #3
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,688
    Excellent post Ham! You just nailed it!

  4. #4
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    Let me be clear, this is not a KILL HERM post

    The man was dealt a horrible hand this year with a plethora of injuries ... I knew this would be a LONG SEASON the moment Chad & Jay were both lost during the seasons first month, and I don't believe there's a coach on this planet who could have had a winning season following that disaster. but there are quite a few who could have kept us alive in this dreadful division where 8-8 may very well win it

    Having said that, I do believe Herm has LOST THE TEAM to some degree ... lost their attention and is no longer able to motivate this team week after week ... the players have heard it all, heard all of his motivational speeches, so to some degree it no longer has the same effect

    Pat Reilly wrote about this in his book ... Parcells and others have commented on this as well

    Reilly talked about leaving the Lakers when he could see that he was no longer able to motivate the team as he once was ... talked about that glazed look he would see in the players eyes when he tried to offer motivation, simply because they had heard it all before ... it was no longer new and exciting to the team, but instead old and tired

    Reilly said a coach has a window with modern athletes ... a window to win while his approach is still new and exciting ... but at some point that window closes and it's time to move on to another team where you can begin the process all over again with a new group of players

    That window closes, Reilly suggested, when you run out of anything new to say ... when you are simply recyling old speeches, and it has clearly lost it's effect

    IMO that's where we are with Herman Edwards now ... the window is either closing or has already slammed shut ... so I believe the smart move, FOR HERM and THE ORGANIZATION, would be to part ways after this season has ended

    I'm sure Herm will hook up with another team and do well ... he'll be a playoff coach just as he was here ... he'll go somewhere else and it will all be new and exciting for his new players

    Ditto the Jets ... they'll bring someone in who brings with him a new energy and excitement ... hopefully Jeff Fisher if the rumors of his departure from Tennessee prove true, because I believe he's experiencing much the same in Tennesssee {it's time for a change}, but he's a terrific HC who will inject instant excitement into this organization if hired ... fresh start for Fisher and a fresh start for the Jets WITH FISHER

    If not Fisher there are other worthy candidates, I'm sure we'll find a Quality HC, but IMO it's time for a change

    Again, nothing against Herm who has done a nice job with the Jets when you look at his entire body of work ... NOT GREAT, but a NICE JOB ... I Just believe it's the Reilly scenario now, and thus time to make a change
    I agree one hundred per cent Ham about Herm running his course. He's a good guy and he'll be succesful somewhere else. But some one needs to change the course, because as Michael Ray Richardson once observed "The ship be sinkin'."

    Jeff Fisher would be a good choice, but I think it goes deeper than that. Bradway isn't the answer and Woody needs to hire a GM before he hires a coach. The drop-off in talent this year had been horrendous and that's Bradway's fault. I don't know if Tannenbaum can be a GM, but I think it has to be considered as a possibility. A guy like him could be a Theo Epstein/Billy Beane type for the NFL. Who knows?

    But you're right. No mulligans here. Herm has to go and Bradway with him. It all makes me even sicker when I think about Brien's misses in Pittsburgh. I haven't felt this bad since '96.

  5. #5
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,008
    KILL HERM!! Oh wait, I'm sorry, what did you say?

    Seriously though, I completely agree with you. That is one of the main reasons I feel that we need to move on. It's not the first time it's happened to a coach and won't be the last. Sometimes it's just time for a change.

  6. #6
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    3,511
    I agree 110 % with this post, I have loved Herm the last couple of years, I think he is a decent to pretty good coach but he wont be able to lead this team with a sly smile anymore, the team believed the last couple of years but after falling short last year, and the disaster that is this season I am sure there is no hoorahs that will motivate this team anymore. We need a coach who has AT LEAST been to a SB with strong X and O knowledge. The 2 new coordinators should be enough to keep the fire lit under the players asses.

  7. #7
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    9,931
    and the sad part is, the play wit cho will speech was old in 2002, and yet here we are in 2005 with herm as the head coach. in other words, in te 83 games weve played under herm, nothing has changed. down 7-0 with a 4th and 1, you dont try to tie the game, you settle for a 22 yard field goal. you play to win the game? get real. it will never change with this guy here and youre right hammer, its time for him to get the hell out.

  8. #8
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    I haven't seen a team that doesn't care. I haven't seen a team that is not motivated. I haven't seen a team that doesn't want to win.

    I have seen a team without a viable QB.


    There are no Tuna's, no Belly's, no Weiss' out there to come in and turn the franchise around on sheer will.

    In this league you need players to win. When he has players Herm gets this team to the playoffs. When he doesn't he doesn't. Sounds pretty simple to me.

    to Fire Herm at this point is undeserved and unlikely to solve a whole lot.

  9. #9
    Im in full agreement about this. That said, if Herm wants to keep his job hes got 7 more games to prove that he has not lost the team. Go out and win 3 of your 4 home games and 1 road game and at least show some fire in the games you lose and not just roll over, play dead, and say "our guys are playing as hard as they can". If the team cant rebound over the next 7 and he has totally lost them we have to cut ties and begin over.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    41,582
    My TOP 5 candidates to replace Herm as of this moment

    1. Jeff Fisher
    2. Mike Martz
    3. Brian Billick
    4. Pete Carroll
    5. Charlie Weis
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 11-14-2005 at 01:53 AM.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Valley Stream
    Posts
    4,403
    how new or exciting a speech is, is not a coaching strategy and should not decide how well a team does. we simply do not have to talent to win or the right coaching staff to mold players into those who posses the talent to win.

    another attempt to answer everybodys questions as to why we are loosing. nice try though, nearly had me.... not really.
    Last edited by ChipShot; 11-14-2005 at 02:42 AM.

  12. #12

    ive been saying this for yrs

    herms gotta go...now

  13. #13
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Guayaquil, Ecuador
    Posts
    1,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    1. Jeff Fisher
    2. Mike Martz
    3. Brian Billick
    4. Pete Carroll
    5. Charlie Weis
    Didn't Pete Carroll already suck in th NFL and with the Jets?
    I don't see Martz having good health and therefore coming back to coach. I thiught that Weiss just took a 10 year extension.

  14. #14
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    8,650
    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Fanatic
    Didn't Pete Carroll already suck in th NFL and with the Jets?
    I don't see Martz having good health and therefore coming back to coach. I thiught that Weiss just took a 10 year extension.
    i don't think this is possible, but i want to have shanahan.

  15. #15
    herm will be here next year.

    the only thing herm has lost is too many players.

  16. #16
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C
    Posts
    350
    Mike Matrz!! Some of you are crazy. If he was a choice, i'd rather keep Herm. He is horrible.

  17. #17
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,768
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    My TOP 5 candidates to replace Herm as of this moment

    1. Jeff Fisher
    2. Mike Martz
    3. Brian Billick
    4. Pete Carroll
    5. Charlie Weis
    Sometimes you have excellent, well thought out and intelligent posts...... and sometimes you do this!!

    PETE CARROLL - I don't ever want to see that train wreck back in town!!!

    BILLICK? - Oh, yeah - for his offesive genius. Has Baltimore scored a TD this year?

    MARTZ? - I'd rather take Kotite back.

    WEIS? - Maybe you should've just listed Lombardi or Landry - we have a better chance of signing them.

    IF, and that's a BIG IF, the Titans lose their minds and let Fisher go we should do anything that we could to get him here. That guy's a franchise coach and would be great for the JETS.
    I just can't see the Titans letting the guy go. They have the youngest team in the league and he's had them in most of the games this year. His record might not say it, but the guy is doing a heck of a job this year.

  18. #18
    All League
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    4,430
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham
    My TOP 5 candidates to replace Herm as of this moment

    1. Jeff Fisher
    2. Mike Martz
    3. Brian Billick
    4. Pete Carroll
    5. Charlie Weis
    I agree it's time for a change, but you lost me on that list of replacements.

    Weis and Carroll are comfortably ensconced where they are; Billick is too mercurial for NY; Fisher may still be p.o.'d how the Jets grabbed Dinger out from under him, and Martz is a POS coach.

    Need a better, realistic alternative than what's on that list.

    That said, I dont have to get myself all worked up in a lather about hating Herm to see it's time for a change.

    OTOH, giving him a pass because of injuries wont fix the problems this team has. It's time to go in a different direction.

  19. #19
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Cutchogue
    Posts
    2,167

    Herm will become an excellent coach ONLY if he moves on.

    Hey GJ&H...I agree 100%. A few days ago I posted the long rant quoted below stating that this week at Carolina would be a turning point in my personal opinion of Herm's future...would he mature here or would he need to leave to continue to succeed.

    Bottom Line:
    1. During Jets 24/7 he showed the series of "Not my faults..." I feared.
    2. He has lost the team, his motivational speeches don't work. They will only continue to lose credibility as the season goes on (He'll still make these speeches and this will seal his fate).

    The Jets and Herm will both benefit from him moving on after this season. The best present he can leave to us and the next coach is film of our young guys in NFL action to give next year's coach a head start.

    GG

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGeek
    Hi all

    Good posts. In my opinion, the strengths and weaknesses of Herm originate from the same source...the player-turned-coach phenomenon. In his early days, the players all believed and reacted to his much-mentioned enthusiasm and pulled this team from what appeared to be lost seasons. The upside of a player-turned-coach is the credibility of his optimism in the face of trouble.

    The downsides of the player-turned-coach are several:

    1. Too much faith in aging veterans (bringing in Vinny, running EXCLUSIVELY with Curtis even when he's hurting).

    2. Too much cheering the ongoing action (like a player or even a fan) and too little thought about what comes several plays or series from now.
    2a--His clock mis-management stems from his watching the game with a player's eye instead of a coaches.
    2b--His lack of creativity in play calling could be linked to the same thing...watching the game instead of directing/adjusting the game plan.

    3. Too much emphasis on getting the best players at HIS old position...defensive secondary. We're still drafting for a Kerry Rhodes (great pick) when our line is crumbling. I'd bet if Herm played O-Line, ours would be strong, young, and DEEP!

    4. Lack of creativity when things get bad. When a player loses focus, play is improved by emphasizing personal basics (position, reads, tackling) in the context of the next play. When the basic play calling just isn't working ("How the Jets win"), the COACH changes the play calling and the PLAYERS get back to basics.

    5. He caters too closely to the players opinions (Curtis: I can play hurt. Chad: This 2nd shoulder ding is not too bad, put me back!).

    Having said all that, I think Herm is a promising coach and might someday be a great one. He's doing one HELL of a lot better in his first HC job than Bill Belichick did in Cleveland. Ask yourself...would Belichick have become the same coach he is now if he had stayed in Cleveland??? Absolutely no way (this remark is the lock of the year). Bill had to get knocked down to climb higher...its called being human.

    The question we should ask is whether we believe that Herm will grow. Will he rise to another level? Can he do it without being first knocked down and then getting back up?

    I fear that Herm is rapidly decending into the spiral making new decisions that are meant to prove to "them" that his previous ones were not so bad (how long did it take to name Bolly as starter??? How about the quote "I don't lie"...a bit on the defensive side, huh?).

    During the rest of this season he will either degrade into a "don't blame me" series of mis-steps and deserve to be fired or he will right the ship and learn how to move to the next level while staying here....actually winning with this severely injury-battered team. I sure hope for the latter case...

    GG

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    41,582
    Let's not lose focus on the main theme ... it's time for a change

    We can argue all day about who the next HC should be, but that's all moot if we don't first put the current HC out of his misery

    First things first

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us