View Poll Results: How did you feel about Herm Edwards 2 weeks ago?

Voters
121. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hated him, wanted him gone.

    28 23.14%
  • Liked him in the past, but it's time to move on.

    35 28.93%
  • Willing to give Herm a pass on this season, give him next season to earn an extension, etc.

    52 42.98%
  • Extend this man now! He should be our coach for the next 5 yrs!

    6 4.96%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: How did you feel about Herm 2 weeks ago...

  1. #1
    Board Moderator
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    11,751

    How did you feel about Herm 2 weeks ago...

    Before all this KC situation went down, what was your mindset on Herm?

  2. #2
    My mindset on Herm has always been the same. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about three years or three weeks ago. The man is a capable coach, I just don't think that he's got the killer instinct that a coach needs to push his men to the top. He kept player egos in check, while often indulging his own... it was a dicotomy that often left me wondering about him. It indicated he might be a hypocrite long before this latest incident. I will not be sorry to see him go, not because I think he's a lousy coach but because I don't see the Jets going anywhere under his lead.

    Ciao

  3. #3
    Board Moderator
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    11,751
    Quote Originally Posted by Jet in Finsville
    My mindset on Herm has always been the same. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about three years or three weeks ago. The man is a capable coach, I just don't think that he's got the killer instinct that a coach needs to push his men to the top. He kept player egos in check, while often indulging his own... it was a dicotomy that often left me wondering about him. It indicated he might be a hypocrite long before this latest incident. I will not be sorry to see him go, not because I think he's a lousy coach but because I don't see the Jets going anywhere under his lead.

    Ciao
    good post. i think that's closer to most of our sentiments than warfish's contention that 95% of us "hated" herm before this happenned (that's why i started the poll, when buzzsaw, who is here a lot, agreed).

  4. #4
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jackson Heights
    Posts
    2,367
    After he Schottenheimered us against the Steelers I didn't want this guy as the coach. When you have to hire someone as your clock guru you know you have issues.
    You play to stay close and hope we get a turnover was a hypocrite's copout and he was never gonna win anything here. It's like both guys Bradway included are OK with mediocrity. That's what scares me into thinking that Schottenheimer will be our next coach. 9-11 win season every year and bonehead moves in the postseason. That Schottenheimer tree is busted from Cowher on down. They are all tools that accept coming close.

  5. #5
    Undrafted Free Agent
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    217
    In my opinion, there are about 10 elite coaches in the NFL -let's say Parcells, Gibbs, Reid, Fox, Gruden, Holmgren, Belichick, Cowher, Dungy, and Shanahan.

    Some of these (in my opinion Holmgren and Gruden) are somewhat arguable. Some may put Jeff Fisher in the above group, and take John Fox out. But it's my list and I can do what I want.

    Then, right below them are a group of younger coaches that can approach that stratosphere - here I would put Jeff Fisher, Marvin Lewis, Nick Saban, Romeo Crennel (my opinion), and Herm Edwards.

    I think Herm and Romeo are the best of that sub-elite tier.

    The stats Bradway gave at today's presser are telling evidence of a well-coached team - least penalties in the NFL over the last 5 years, 2nd in the league in trunover margin. 5 playoff games over the last 5 years. His teams generally played their best football in December and January.

    I think he gets to a Super Bowl with KC.

  6. #6
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Jets Stadium Section 246
    Posts
    36,924
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobZ
    In my opinion, there are about 10 elite coaches in the NFL -let's say Parcells, Gibbs, Reid, Fox, Gruden, Holmgren, Belichick, Cowher, Dungy, and Shanahan.

    Some of these (in my opinion Holmgren and Gruden) are somewhat arguable. Some may put Jeff Fisher in the above group, and take John Fox out. But it's my list and I can do what I want.

    Then, right below them are a group of younger coaches that can approach that stratosphere - here I would put Jeff Fisher, Marvin Lewis, Nick Saban, Romeo Crennel (my opinion), and Herm Edwards.

    I think Herm and Romeo are the best of that sub-elite tier.

    The stats Bradway gave at today's presser are telling evidence of a well-coached team - least penalties in the NFL over the last 5 years, 2nd in the league in trunover margin. 5 playoff games over the last 5 years. His teams generally played their best football in December and January.

    I think he gets to a Super Bowl with KC.

    Wait a minute, isn't Herm in the same class as Cowher? Its been like what...15 years and Cowher still hasn't won a Superbowl. Cowher is almost exactly like Herm....very high percentage of playoff appearances and some good playoff wins but hasn't won the big one. Herm has been a HC for no more than one-third the time that Cowher has been a coach.

    EDIT: And Dungy? Same deal. Good guy, lots of wins and some playoff appearances.....what else has he done? Herm has a 5 year track record and 2 of them included MAJOR injuries to his QB and others. The other 3 years were ALL PLAYOFF YEARS.

  7. #7
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Quote Originally Posted by jetstream23
    Wait a minute, isn't Herm in the same class as Cowher? Its been like what...15 years and Cowher still hasn't won a Superbowl. Cowher is almost exactly like Herm....very high percentage of playoff appearances and some good playoff wins but hasn't won the big one. Herm has been a HC for no more than one-third the time that Cowher has been a coach.

    EDIT: And Dungy? Same deal. Good guy, lots of wins and some playoff appearances.....what else has he done? Herm has a 5 year track record and 2 of them included MAJOR injuries to his QB and others. The other 3 years were ALL PLAYOFF YEARS.
    Yes, but Herm has always been a low seed in the playoffs. The Jets have never clinched a spot prior to the last week of the season under Herm. They were always a low seed who lost when they played a high seed. They did defeat a #4 seed last season, the only time they defeated a team seeded higher than they were. The only time they were higher seed was against Indy in 2002. They never won a second round game, never hosted a second round game and never clinched a spot before the final week. They've never been a top-seeded team and never beaten a top-seeded team. Cowher and Dungy have been to multiple conference title games, won multiple divisions, gotten first-round byes, hosted secound round games, beaten high seeds, been high seeds, etc. Cowher has been to a SB. Herm hasn't done that. "Making the playoffs" isn't something that completely describes an accomplishment - all playoff teams are not equal. Being a top seeded team is different than being a #5 or #6 seed who clinches on the final week of the season because Buffalo lost to Pittsburgh's backups. Low seeds basically NEVER make it to the SB.

    The Jets have never even come close to getting a first round bye under Herm, and have never once been playing really well, with a playoff spot clinched with a few games to go. Cowher and Dungy have done that, many times...and Dungy's done it with two different teams. Parcells was here right nefore Herm and did that - was a high seed, hosted and won a second-round game, made a conference title game. Herm hasn't even done what his predecessor did, and his predecessor took over a 4-28 team, not a team that hadn't had a losing season in 4 years, like the team Herm took over. Now, after 5 years, the team is terrible, under Herm's watch.

    If your criteria is coaches who have won it all, you should be calling Barry Switzer and George Siefert. It's hard to win it all, not many coaches have done that. But to compare Herm to Cowher or Dungy is a joke.
    Last edited by jets5ever; 01-09-2006 at 05:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Naples FL
    Posts
    44,945
    In 01 I wanted Fox or Lewis..But I said "What the Hell" I'll give him a Chance! After watching 1 Game I knew he was no HC! Great Talker and Flim Flam Man but not a HC IMHO!! I do wish him and his Familiy well in KC because that's where his Heart was and he is Good people!!

  9. #9
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Westchester County, NY
    Posts
    3,477
    2 weeks ago, just resolved that he was coming back next year even though I did feel it was time for a change-- afterall why wouldn't I think that he was the coach next year after he repeatedly said he was coming back and wanted to stay here in NY

    said that if the team has another bad season under him next year, that was it-- enough of Herm but he bolted....so....let's enjoy the search for a new HC and see what happens next

  10. #10
    Jets Insider Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    14,874
    Wow, I guess the status quo was the silent majority. I supported him, but now glad I don't have to.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    41,582
    I liked Herm personally, as I have from the beginning, but I thought it was time to make a change

  12. #12
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,656
    I was willing to give Herm another year, but I just can't say I'm upset he's gone.

    Here's a problem with Herm not many people have talked about: moderate expectations.

    The best example of this occured in 2004. The Jets started the season 5-0 and 6-1. What did Herm Edwards often tell to CBS commentator Jim Nantz in the pre-game production meetings about the AFC playoff picture ?

    "It's a race to 10."

    Nantz brought that quote up often throughout the 2nd half of the 2004 season. Now I know the Jets 2nd half of their season was tougher than their first half, and they dealt with an injury to their QB. But what kind of message is that ? "Just win 10 games guys, that should be enough to get us in." Hello !? 5th and 6th seeds do NOTHING in the playoffs. NOTHING. It's not about just "being on the bus", it's about getting a front seat.

    I remember reading the post-game articles after the Seattle win. Shaun Ellis was going nuts in the locker room - "10-4 baby!!" he bellowed. And why not ? The Jets accomplished the goal set for them by their coach during season, after the team started 5-0 and 6-1.

    The Jets played those final 2 games of the season like a team that had a net. They didn't. If Pittsburgh's JV doesn't beat the Bills in Buffalo, the Jets are home for the playoffs, even with their reaching Herm's coveted 10 win mark.

  13. #13
    Moderator VIP Visionary
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    SF via Strong Island
    Posts
    31,179
    Those guys brought their best games out under Herm. Too bad he couldn't reach their level...or did he?

  14. #14

    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jet in Finsville
    My mindset on Herm has always been the same. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about three years or three weeks ago. The man is a capable coach, I just don't think that he's got the killer instinct that a coach needs to push his men to the top. He kept player egos in check, while often indulging his own... it was a dicotomy that often left me wondering about him. It indicated he might be a hypocrite long before this latest incident. I will not be sorry to see him go, not because I think he's a lousy coach but because I don't see the Jets going anywhere under his lead.

    Ciao
    And he was too much a player's coach ... too easy ... too Herm-like ...

  15. #15
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,844
    Quote Originally Posted by jets5ever
    Yes, but Herm has always been a low seed in the playoffs. The Jets have never clinched a spot prior to the last week of the season under Herm. They were always a low seed who lost when they played a high seed. They did defeat a #4 seed last season, the only time they defeated a team seeded higher than they were. The only time they were higher seed was against Indy in 2002. They never won a second round game, never hosted a second round game and never clinched a spot before the final week. They've never been a top-seeded team and never beaten a top-seeded team. Cowher and Dungy have been to multiple conference title games, won multiple divisions, gotten first-round byes, hosted secound round games, beaten high seeds, been high seeds, etc. Cowher has been to a SB. Herm hasn't done that. "Making the playoffs" isn't something that completely describes an accomplishment - all playoff teams are not equal. Being a top seeded team is different than being a #5 or #6 seed who clinches on the final week of the season because Buffalo lost to Pittsburgh's backups. Low seeds basically NEVER make it to the SB.

    The Jets have never even come close to getting a first round bye under Herm, and have never once been playing really well, with a playoff spot clinched with a few games to go. Cowher and Dungy have done that, many times...and Dungy's done it with two different teams. Parcells was here right nefore Herm and did that - was a high seed, hosted and won a second-round game, made a conference title game. Herm hasn't even done what his predecessor did, and his predecessor took over a 4-28 team, not a team that hadn't had a losing season in 4 years, like the team Herm took over. Now, after 5 years, the team is terrible, under Herm's watch.

    If your criteria is coaches who have won it all, you should be calling Barry Switzer and George Siefert. It's hard to win it all, not many coaches have done that. But to compare Herm to Cowher or Dungy is a joke.
    This is an excellent post and one of the few that really manages to capture what the Edwards tenure was all about...Edwards teams were characterised by 'hanging on in there' and never once did I feel that he took the team and had them performing at their optimum level.....good work
    Last edited by Redlichtie; 01-10-2006 at 04:44 AM.

  16. #16
    Hall Of Fame
    Founding JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    10,198
    To conservetive ,play calling is to unimaginative, & continues to force a system during a game even when it`s obvious early during the game it`s not working...Unwilling to give younger players anyreal playing time until he`s forced to by injury to a reg. starter even if they showed promise like LAMONT .He was a Nice guy & an ok coach but not a great coach..

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    41,582
    Quote Originally Posted by JETSRULE05

    I was willing to give Herm another year, but I just can't say I'm upset he's gone.

    Here's a problem with Herm not many people have talked about: moderate expectations.

    The best example of this occured in 2004. The Jets started the season 5-0 and 6-1. What did Herm Edwards often tell to CBS commentator Jim Nantz in the pre-game production meetings about the AFC playoff picture ?

    "It's a race to 10."

    Nantz brought that quote up often throughout the 2nd half of the 2004 season. Now I know the Jets 2nd half of their season was tougher than their first half, and they dealt with an injury to their QB. But what kind of message is that ? "Just win 10 games guys, that should be enough to get us in." Hello !? 5th and 6th seeds do NOTHING in the playoffs. NOTHING. It's not about just "being on the bus", it's about getting a front seat.

    I remember reading the post-game articles after the Seattle win. Shaun Ellis was going nuts in the locker room - "10-4 baby!!" he bellowed. And why not ? The Jets accomplished the goal set for them by their coach during season, after the team started 5-0 and 6-1.

    The Jets played those final 2 games of the season like a team that had a net. They didn't. If Pittsburgh's JV doesn't beat the Bills in Buffalo, the Jets are home for the playoffs, even with their reaching Herm's coveted 10 win mark.
    Great Post, JR

    I think that captured the real essence of Herm ... mediocre HC because his own Goals, as articulated by Herm, left some wiggle room to be satisfied with JUST GOOD ENOUGH

    Look at the Yankees ... WC makes the playoffs in baseball, and unlike the NFL there is no BIG CARROT to winning a division title verses securing a WC ... Yet still every Yankee knows the MANDATE {from the top} is to win the division outright

    Now they would settle for a WC if it came to that, but their mission statement is always to win the ALE ... can't tell you how many times I've heard that from the Yankees over the past decade, from STEIN to TORRE to JETER to EVERY YANKEES ... and again, this without any big difference {compared to football} in the post season {no bye week and HFA Just means 2-3 or 3-4}

    Anyone who knows anything at all about football knows that the #1 Seed is an enormous advantage, and the #2 Seed is huge as well ... Yet that was never the rallying cry for Herm when the Jets started 6-1 ... as you correctly pointed out, the rallying cry remained "IT'S A RACE TO 10"

    I always felt that was the wrong message, even knowing he meant "GET 10" and then we'll shoot for more ... because IMO it's human nature to sub-consiously view "10" as the BIG TARGET and everything else is Gravy

    Just a horrible message to send your team

    If you setup MEDIOCRITY as your regular season mission statement, don't expect much more than that
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 01-10-2006 at 05:15 AM.

  18. #18
    Undrafted Free Agent
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    217
    Quote Originally Posted by jets5ever
    Yes, but Herm has always been a low seed in the playoffs. The Jets have never clinched a spot prior to the last week of the season under Herm. They were always a low seed who lost when they played a high seed. They did defeat a #4 seed last season, the only time they defeated a team seeded higher than they were. The only time they were higher seed was against Indy in 2002. They never won a second round game, never hosted a second round game and never clinched a spot before the final week. They've never been a top-seeded team and never beaten a top-seeded team. Cowher and Dungy have been to multiple conference title games, won multiple divisions, gotten first-round byes, hosted secound round games, beaten high seeds, been high seeds, etc. Cowher has been to a SB. Herm hasn't done that. "Making the playoffs" isn't something that completely describes an accomplishment - all playoff teams are not equal. Being a top seeded team is different than being a #5 or #6 seed who clinches on the final week of the season because Buffalo lost to Pittsburgh's backups. Low seeds basically NEVER make it to the SB.

    The Jets have never even come close to getting a first round bye under Herm, and have never once been playing really well, with a playoff spot clinched with a few games to go. Cowher and Dungy have done that, many times...and Dungy's done it with two different teams. Parcells was here right nefore Herm and did that - was a high seed, hosted and won a second-round game, made a conference title game. Herm hasn't even done what his predecessor did, and his predecessor took over a 4-28 team, not a team that hadn't had a losing season in 4 years, like the team Herm took over. Now, after 5 years, the team is terrible, under Herm's watch.

    If your criteria is coaches who have won it all, you should be calling Barry Switzer and George Siefert. It's hard to win it all, not many coaches have done that. But to compare Herm to Cowher or Dungy is a joke.


    It's extremely difficult to get playoff byes when you have a dynasty in your division. I can assure you that Lovie Smith would not have, for example.

  19. #19
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York (Where life Began)
    Posts
    4,279
    I was willing to give him a pass. But let's be realistic this is a rebuilding project. Between him and Bradway they have only depleted what was here once. It's time to move on and no doubt Woody felt that way. Maybe someone has the coaching abilities and scouting knowledge to fix this mess.

    And tell Bradway to kiss his *** this is what he wants this year.
    If not Bradway is gone after next year if this team does not make the playoffs. Especially with the weak *** schedule we are going to be getting.

  20. #20
    All League
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    220a, Row 12
    Posts
    4,197
    It is still the way I feel.

    We lost a good guy and a good coach, but maybe we can do better.

    Time to move on. Wish him the best of luck (just not against us).

    BZ

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us