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Thread: Great Article on Marv Levy's Thinking on Draft Day *MUST READ*

  1. #1

    Great Article on Marv Levy's Thinking on Draft Day *MUST READ*

    http://bills.scout.com/2/526808.html

    Buffalo Bills Go “Old School”


    By: Neil Masters

    Date: May 1, 2006

    GM Marv Levy continued his “Old School” makeover of the Buffalo Bills in the NFL draft over the weekend with some unexpected moves that shocked the draft “gurus” and left many Bills fans, accustomed to the high-profile, “value system” approach to drafting that has been in vogue around the NFL in recent years, wondering if Levy really is as senile and out of touch as some in the media have dismissively portrayed him.

    Go here to read the rest of the article: Buffalo Bills Go “Old School”

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Hemorrhage
    http://bills.scout.com/2/526808.html

    Buffalo Bills Go “Old School”


    By: Neil Masters

    Date: May 1, 2006

    GM Marv Levy continued his “Old School” makeover of the Buffalo Bills in the NFL draft over the weekend with some unexpected moves that shocked the draft “gurus” and left many Bills fans, accustomed to the high-profile, “value system” approach to drafting that has been in vogue around the NFL in recent years, wondering if Levy really is as senile and out of touch as some in the media have dismissively portrayed him.

    Go here to read the rest of the article: Buffalo Bills Go “Old School”
    I think they did some foolish drafting, but I also feel like Levy has some things up his sleeve..

  3. #3
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    LOL - spin, spin, spin. I understand Levy wanting to draft players to fit the system, and I understand that defense wins championships, but you have to use value as a factor in the draft - they took players too early. And how can anyone figure that Bunkley doesn't fit a cover-2 - he's versatile and can play nearly any position on the d-line.

    Overall, I really liked their draft. The Jets took a step forward, the Bills took a gigantic step backward

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BornAJet
    I think they did some foolish drafting, but I also feel like Levy has some things up his sleeve..
    There is no way you read that whole article in 1 minute.

  5. #5
    This article should be a MUST READ for everybody like Lagmean and Fatman that have done nothing but whine about why the Jets took "X" player and not "Y" player. An excellent article and an enjoyable read. Great post!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Hemorrhage
    There is no way you read that whole article in 1 minute.
    You're 100% right. But...I have read a nauseating amount of stuff about this in the last few days, and my comment was relevant.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
    LOL - spin, spin, spin. I understand Levy wanting to draft players to fit the system, and I understand that defense wins championships, but you have to use value as a factor in the draft - they took players too early. And how can anyone figure that Bunkley doesn't fit a cover-2 - he's versatile and can play nearly any position on the d-line.

    Overall, I really liked their draft. The Jets took a step forward, the Bills took a gigantic step backward
    The draft is generally a small step forward in the giant scheme of things. The Jets took a giant step forward into their future this offseason, primarily by trading away John Abraham and trading for Patrick Ramsey and releasing Jason Fabini, Kevin Mawae and Ty Law.

    The only thing the Bills have to worry about is how much money they are paying their new safety. Premium draft slots require premium money.

    The Jets used their premium draft slot on a relatively safe pick, by comparison, which puts them in position to make that "step forward," but they can just as easily trip while moving in that direction, so be leery.

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    During the First Round it was clear to me that the Buffalo Bills did not understand what the draft is all about.

    While the Jets made some reaches, Trading down, gaining an extra second rounder, and then getting there player makes me have tremendous hope for our boys. While Im still not totally over Gocong, I love how stingy this FO is with draft picks--There like Gold to them.

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    Read as much as I could, its really long. But it's ridiculous to say that Marv is doing it "old school" and its just a simply a difference in perspective regarding the draft.

    If you can trade down 3 spots and get the same exact player while picking up a 2nd and 3rd round pick then you do it. If they traded with philly to #14 I highly doubt the Dolphins were going to trade their #2 to leapfrog the Bills for Whitner, there were plenty of quality DB's on the board. The article states that the the tampa bay cover 2 defence requires a very particular type of saftey, even if that's the case, this year's DB crop was sooooo deep they could've found an adequate alternate even if, god forbid, somebody jumped them for Whitner which would never of happened in the first place.

    Marv's fallen and he's not getting up . . . somebody buy this guy "the clapper" and call it a night.

  10. #10
    so we can expect them to choke again?

    did they hire norwood as their kicking coach?

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    The Bills reached on both of their 1st round players, no doubt about it. But both those guys are good ball players; the value was terrible though.

    They could have walked away with:

    Leinart or Cutler/Justice
    Ngata/Mercedes Lewis
    Bunkley/Mangold

    They just missed the point of the draft. The players they picked are good, but the value was AWFUL.

  12. #12
    I'll give the cliff notes for that long winded article:

    -Levy is old school.
    -Bills were good in the old school.
    -Somehow Bills were 'all defense' in the old school, so they will be now too. (nevermind Thurman Thomas and Jim Kelly being the anchors of that run)
    -Draft value charts and trading down is overrated.
    -Bills did ok, just trust us.

    Ya, ok. Keep eating that fluff.

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    The Bills had a horrid draft....the y got decent players but they have so much need sand could have done much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
    And how can anyone figure that Bunkley doesn't fit a cover-2 - he's versatile and can play nearly any position on the d-line.

    maybe they were scared by his injury history - one more major surgery on his knee he's done - he's had two already. three strikes and youre out

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Rhodes
    During the First Round it was clear to me that the Buffalo Bills did not understand what the draft is all about.

    While the Jets made some reaches, Trading down, gaining an extra second rounder, and then getting there player makes me have tremendous hope for our boys. While Im still not totally over Gocong, I love how stingy this FO is with draft picks--There like Gold to them.

    The article is incorrect, the jets did not draft Gocong, I believe the eagles did.

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    say what you will but Dante Whitner is a player and if they didnt think he would be there if they traded down you take him where he went...ive seen this kid play and i only wish the jets had him.

  17. #17
    I love whats happening with the Bills right now because we get to play them twice a year. That franchise is going down the toilet in a hurry.

    And by the way, reaching for players in the first round is the worst thing teams can do. If the Bills would have traded down they would have gotten the player they wanted annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddd......... more importantly they would have been able to pay them less money. That is the key to the draft. Its the value of the player relative to the salary.

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    I think some of the comments are off-base here. There's a method to Levy's drafting, it's just that it's the methodology of a different era - but it's not the same kind of difference the article talked about.

    I believe there's a new school of thought in the NFL and I believe that guys like GJ&H and Kerry Rhodes are talking about it - it's the adage that you get the Best player available at the current pick and that every specific slot has a specific value. What Kerry Rhodes said in this thread regarding the Bills 'not knowing what the draft is about' is an example of this divergence. Kerry, I hope you don't mind me speaking for you, but I think you're saying that the Bills should have traded down, since they may have desired the player but the value of the player exceeded the value of the slot in which he was taken. In this point of view, there is inherently the assumption that draft slots have individual values. This idea is really exemplified in that 'draft slot value chart' that gets thrown around to try and help people with analyzing pick-for-pick trades. I will call this the 'draftnik' ideology. It is important to stress that neither ideology is necessarily BETTER than the other, or, if one is superior it remains to be seen which is the better. Draftnik is not a negative term. Kerry is one of the best posters and smartest football guys on the board.

    On the other hand, this ideology contrasts with the ideology I will call the 'player oriented' ideology. This ideology - which Marv Levy subscribes to and which is quickly becoming an anachronism - says that the slots are nothing, they're inheretly valueless. The pick chart is bullsh!t and you trades should be made based on desire. A player-oreinted drafter will do all the same homework as the draftnik, but instead of ranking every player in the draft on a giant list he'll narrow down the list to players he WANTS, and then his objective is to acquire as many of those players as possible. Levy had Whitner at the top of his list for whatever reason, so logically it was sensible for him to take him with his first pick. It didn't matter to Levy that somebody probably would have traded up to eight to grab a more universally highly-regarded player and Levy could still get his guy at 20 - it only mattered that Levy had the guy that fit.

    Which is the more sensible ideology? There'll probably be debate as to which is the answer. Most people on this board come from the draftnik faction, but that's just where this population lies.

    For example, let's suppose that the Bills picked first. Suppose Bush was on the board but for whatever reason we'll suppose that Levy didn't want Bush. Levy, the player-oriented ideologist, would say forget it and would have picked his number one rated player - Whitner. Now suppose Kerry Rhodes was the GM of the Bills in the same hypothetical spot. Kerry would have done one of two things - he either would have picked Bush anyway realizing that Bush's value and the value of the spot both greatly exceeded the value of picking Whitner there, or he would have traded down and acquired more picks or another player.

    Kerry probably would say that Levy is out of touch because he's not getting maximum value and most posters here would agree. But there's another side to that coin - Levy would tell Kerry that he's wasting his time; the goal isn't to draft for VALUE but to draft for a Super Bowl. Levy would say that he got the players he wanted and that was fine enough for him.

    Can you be a moderate, in between these two schools of thought? Sure. Take a look at Tannenbaum! He 'reached' on Schlegel and Smith, but to Tannenbaum that didn't matter because he got the players he wanted. On the other hand, he recognized that even though he wanted Clemens something awful, he could trade down and get another second rounder next year.

    The point of this post isn't to defend Levy and to criticize the draftnik, it's just to emphasize that Levy isn't a crazy old fart - he is truly of another school of thought.

    That being said, I don't think Levy's scouting was good, and of course scouting is the variable that helps or hurts either the draftnik or the player-oriented equally as much. I think that Levy's draft was bad not due to him taking Whitner that early but due to taking Whitner at all - which is to say that I think other safeties would have had better careers in Buffalo. I think that it's admirable to come into a draft wanting to get the players you want, but I don't think Whitner is what Levy wants. But that's the disagreement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Hemorrhage
    http://bills.scout.com/2/526808.html

    Buffalo Bills Go “Old School”


    By: Neil Masters

    Date: May 1, 2006

    GM Marv Levy continued his “Old School” makeover of the Buffalo Bills in the NFL draft over the weekend with some unexpected moves that shocked the draft “gurus” and left many Bills fans, accustomed to the high-profile, “value system” approach to drafting that has been in vogue around the NFL in recent years, wondering if Levy really is as senile and out of touch as some in the media have dismissively portrayed him.

    Go here to read the rest of the article: Buffalo Bills Go “Old School”
    O.K., I read this article from top to bottom.

    What the hell was so great about it??? I found it pretty dry.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long Suffering Jets Fan
    The article is incorrect, the jets did not draft Gocong, I believe the eagles did.
    Correct. But we SHOULD have drafted Gocong. The Eagles did indeed take him... with OUR pick! A pick they got from us for a measly 7th round pick (I think we got a little too cute in trying to recoup the 7th rounder we traded away earlier to get Clemmens). Gocong was the hard-working, high-character, pass-rushing 3-4 OLB that we needed. The Eagles stole him from us! Here's what the Eagles' VP of player personnel said about Gocong:
    "He was still on the board and was by far the highest-rated guy there. We're going to play him at linebacker, but we thought we may have a need at 'Sam' (strong-side) linebacker and also with someone to help us as a pass rusher. He was so highly rated that we thought we had to go up and get up and try to get him. We did not think he was going to be there at our pick, so we said, 'We'd hate to sit there and lose him,' because he was sticking out like a sore thumb on our board."
    link: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9411240

    As you can see, I'm still upset about this one too, Kerry Rhodes. I think it's the one blemish on an otherwise awesome draft. Really, the only obvious mistake that the new FO has made so far.

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