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Thread: The Warfish Review: Jets vs. Bucs

  1. #1
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    The Warfish Review: Jets vs. Bucs

    Sorry for being so late (not that most care, lol), but I stayed off the forum last night so I could watch it "as if it were live" this morning, on the NFL Network 10am replay.

    My Observations:

    --Chad Pennington looked very sharp on his short yardage throws. His velocity on those shorties looked to be equal to where he has been in the past, and his accuracy was quite good. However, he threw almost completely short, and never had a chance (or choice) to throw longer and test the arm. My heart was in my throat twice with him....when Blaylock went the wrong way and Chad had to bootleg run, and when Chad was hit in the arm. I screamed at the TV both times, but at least from the TV Coverage, it appeared he weathered both hits pretty darn well (I won't comment on the newspaper report of a reinjury, seems to be pure speculation at this point). Overall, I give Chad a solid "B", he was accurate and Sharp for a first pre-season showing.

    --Kellen Clemens was very impressive, doubly so for being a rookie. He loses a few points for playing against the Bucs second team, but in looking at the things that he did that were purely "him", i.e. throwing motion, accuracy, velocity, poise, etc, he looked very very good. A brilliant first showing, and hopefully a sign that we have a developing high quality player in him. The only real criticism I saw was that he seemed to not feel the pressure on him at time, especially when he was sacked. That is an experience/awareness thing, and he will get better at that. Overall a very good B+/A- showing from him.

    --Patrick Ramsey, well not much to say. His limited time could speak volumes, or it could say nothing.....I just cannot tell with Mangini and will not try to say I am smart enough to read his mind. However, I must say the impression I get is that Chad is the clear-cut #1 QB now, Kellen Clemens is the #2, and Ramsey and Bolly will have to battle for the #3 spot, with Bollinger likely to get "first blood" next week vs. the Skins (i.e. he'll play before Ramsey). Ramsey looked bad on his first throw, a clear and horrid miss-throw, but his other two looked solid, even if his receiver had issues holding on. I must say, I am and was in Ramsey's corner that he could make himself a quality QB. But the more camp and pre-season moves on, the less confidence I have in him. It does indeed appear that I was wrong, if not in his potential, in my view that he would thrive and fix his issues here in NY. Can't get them all right, eh? Given the lack of time, and the third string players he was with, have to give him an "I" for incomplete. Bollinger obviously gets an "I" as well.

    --The Offensive Line Team #1 looked quite good IMO. Not great on run-blocking, but pretty darn solid in Pass-blocking situations. The Bucs did get some pressure, but it was far less than I expected frankly. Another very solid B showing vs the pass, but I have to say a C showing on the run.

    --And that brings us to our Running backs. Weak. Plain old weak. As one who still believes that a Houston/Washington/Blaylock combo can be effective, I am disappointed in this first showing. I saw very little quality play, far too few good solid runs, and alot of "1 yard and a cloud of dust, down on the first hit" runs. Blaylock looked absolutely average, Houston not much better. Washington showed a little flash in my view, but not alot yet. I still have faith, but I have to give them a C- to D+ for this first effort. The running game must be improved.

    --The Wideouts looked pretty good, nice to see Cotch make a few plays, and see Coles look solid. The talk of Dwight being Chrebet is a bit pre-mature I think, but he looked fast, elusive and like he could be a good addition in 3 WR formations in a Chrebet-like role, if not a Chrebet-like production. However, I don't recall JMac's name being called out even once. Did he catch anything? Maybe it was the Bucs Network coverage (NFL Network shows Bucs side 1st half, Jets side 2nd), but I cannot remember hearing his name or seeing him make any catches. Nothing great from the depth players, cool seeing our converted QB make a catch or two, looked okay. He'll take a while to develop, obviously, but perhaps a good long-term pickup.

    --The Defense.....well, the starting D looked relatively solid. However, with the shift to the 3-4, I fear our ability to be as good vs. the run as we have been in years past. The first teamers were okay, perhaps a C+ maybe, but the 2nd teamers and back looked very bad, D- at best vs the run. Pass D wasn't horrid, but wasn't great either. The Bucs third stringers looked like he was unchallenged when throwing against us for the most part. Overall, our Defense looks to have taken a big step back, at least here at the start, and has an awful lot to learn and an awful lot of development to change to this 3-4 D and play well. Too early for any real predictions, but if we do not see improvement next week, I think our D may be weaker than any of us expected, and not the "lean on us" unit it has been in the past few years.

    --Kicking Game. Nugget kicked off pretty well, made his one FG attempt. Not much to judge him on yet. Graham punted well. Special Teams looked pretty good, and I thought that "jump and knock the ball back out of the end-zone" play by I think #55, was great. Too bad it hit the goal-line first, but a great effort.

    --Coaching. Not much to judge him on yet. Time management was fine, challenged the only real challengable play, called timeouts ok, no worries there yet. Right now, this early, it's alot of pretty "Vanilla" O-Schemes and D-Schemes, just seeing who can play, so it's far too early top judge how these new schemes will work out. The "O" does seem to love the Shift, and thats good IF the players all figure it out and stay on top of that kind of very complex offensive system. It should play well (all that movement) to Chad's abilities and style, i.e. short accurate passes and play-action. The running game must improve though for those play-action passes to work, or we'll see more of the Chad "hit in the arm" type plays on play-action. At least Mangini didn;t smile much, he looks far too soft when he smiles, but not nearly so when scowling, lol. Not a criticism, just a funny observation.

    One problem I did see was that we appear to be (again) a very conservative dink-dunk crawl-up-the-field offense. This kind of "O" requires perfection for a long, multiple play drive. Scoring drives for us look like they'll have to be 12-20 plays long. Lots of 3 yard gainers, lots of third downs, lots of short "reliable" plays. While that plays to Chad's strengths (and perhaps our RB's too), it is too slow and too "multiple-play" depending to be a reliable scoring offense. Look, if anyone screws up even once, it can kill these long drivers, and we seem to lack (with Chad) the ability to make a third and 10, 12, 15 type big throw. Now, it's far too early to say that with any surety, but at least based on todays "O", it looks very familiar to the "O" we've seen in recent years. Too many plays, too short of plays, no explosiveness, too much requirement for perfection to score TD's. Still ALOT of time to see them play before the season starts, so this is obviously a "first look" review only, and certainly is not indicative of what we could be in for come the regular season.

    Overall, it was very positive to see Chad throw and take hits without dropping dead, although that "FEAR!" will be in my throat at least every time he gets hit this season. I don't WANT to expect it, but I cannot help it. I was disappointed in our running game, disappointed in our Defensive depth. But it's only the first pre-season game, and I am not concerned yet in any real way. I want to see ALOT more of this team before I can really have a solid grasp of what they are bringing to the table this season, and before I can levy and real praise or criticism on the individual players, or the Coaches Schemes.

    I must say though, it was great to have Jets Football back again. Sitting on my couch, Ramsey Jersey on, Jets hat on, re-heated Pizza for breakfast, avoiding all the score updates so it would feel "live", screaming at the TV, getting all worked up.....man, it's great. There is nothing like Jets Football for me, and I am SOOOO happy it's back. We may not know what this season will bring us just yet, but it is an exciting time for us as Jets fans, this start of a "New Era", and I am drooling at the prospect of watching every second of it in 2006.

    J....

    E....

    T....

    S....

    JETS! JETS! JETS!
    Last edited by Warfish; 08-12-2006 at 01:44 PM.

  2. #2
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    Great breakdown - I don't disagree with any of your points.

  3. #3
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    i agree

    the game would have been sobering were i not as drunk as i was, but its pretty awesome to have football back on the tv

  4. #4
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    Very well thought out level headed review. Thanks for the analysis. I pretty much agree with mostly everything said. And will somebody please tell Ramsey that Football Season is starting.

  5. #5
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    I guess I am not the only one on the Ramsey bandwagon...

  6. #6
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    Well said....The only thing I would add is that the Bucs D always plays that bend but don't break D and that could be why they relied on the short passing game a little more than they may in the future. They called a few plays downfield and it looked like they were covered and Chad had to go to the third or fourth read.

  7. #7
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    Nice review

    I also want to know what happened to Jmac, did he actually play?

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    How do you feel Drob played?? And do you seem him playing out of position a big problem for us?

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    I also had to watch the replay on NFL Network and although it's great to watch a live Jet game, there were few positives to take away from the first pre-season game.

    One can only hope that Mangini can fix some of the problems. Mangini and Clemens were the standouts as far as I'm concerned. Obvioulsy, the biggest problem was stopping the run, which we did not do at all. Very disappointed that we weren't able to adjust throughout the whole game. The bucs manhandled us easily. We need a NT badly. I realize this new scheme needs to be fine tuned and the right players need to be in place, but I just didn't think it would be this bad.

    I thought Chad was ok for what it was. Wish Ramsey would have gotten more playing time. Kellen is definately the future. Mangini can coach, I have no doubt. Brad Smith showed some nice flashes. Cotchery looked promising.
    Coles looked tough as usual. Cannot even judge that "lack of" a running game because there was no run blocking, but it doesn't look promising. Victor Hobson should have had that pick, he's a 4 year vet. Tim Dwight was a decent addition. Justin Miller showed some flashes.

    All in all it is what it is: A Work In Progress That is what we as fans should keep in mind while we're rooting for our team this year. No team could have too much success starting from scratch ( and we are really rebuilding from the beginning.) I do think we are building a foundation that will become successful. We just had too many holes to fill in one year. We also have to let a new young first time coaching staff get some seasoning.

    I do believe we will see some decent games this season (more towards the second half) as the whole thing is given time to gel.

    Hey, we had to do this, and it's gonna take some time.

  10. #10
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    I don't think the running backs can be fairly evaluated after one preseason game. A new offensive scheme in place and a new OL will create conditions where the RBs will hesitate slightly. It seemed to me that the holes were narrow and the Bucs weren't going to give up much no matter who was in there. blaylock goes down exactly where he was tackled; whereas, Houston looks powerful and dishes out some punishment.

    The running game could have been opened up a bit with 15 -30 yd passes. But those weren't called. The safeties cheated and we should of thrown a couple of deep passes to open things up a bit.

    I got the feeling that this was a game of seeing if we could march down the field and control the tempo. And we did.

    I think the Offense looked better than the Defense. Our secondary looks good but the 3-4 is awful at stopping the running game.

  11. #11
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    for a team that gave up last year you guys couldn't have expected a better showing. You guys must be pleased that pennington's arms didn't fall off after being hit. He seems to be himself which is a shock, although he always was a tease for you guys and i wonder if he will get past that.
    Clemons was the real shocker, no real rookie mistakes, but rather smart decisions. He looked a lot better then our rookie (jason cambell) did in his opening series last year. i have been preaching this i think your team may have had a hall of fame draft this year.

    Your defense is gonna be a problem this year i think but still for what is suppose to be a pure rebuilding year a very well played and organized first pre-season game.

    By the way i assume manigini will give all the qbs their due time and it looks like he likes seeing them in long spurts rather then rotating them in and out. From my reading on here he has been doing that in camp too. I assume ramsey will get his big shot next week against us(your gonna get worked). Anyways I kind of think he is playing a cruel trick on ramsey by adding the extra pressure of making him play his old team for all the cards. Ramsey's game problems are mental not physical, many would say he issues are confidence related and this could be a rough one for him. I guess what i am saying is if he is going to fold, next week will be the perfect situation for it. Should be interesting to see how he reacts, i hope he steps up for his sake, either way though as i said you guys are gonna have a rough outing next week.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish
    Sorry for being so late (not that most care, lol), but I stayed off the forum last night so I could watch it "as if it were live" this morning, on the NFL Network 10am replay.

    My Observations:

    --Chad Pennington looked very sharp on his short yardage throws. His velocity on those shorties looked to be equal to where he has been in the past, and his accuracy was quite good. However, he threw almost completely short, and never had a chance (or choice) to throw longer and test the arm. My heart was in my throat twice with him....when Blaylock went the wrong way and Chad had to bootleg run, and when Chad was hit in the arm. I screamed at the TV both times, but at least from the TV Coverage, it appeared he weathered both hits pretty darn well (I won't comment on the newspaper report of a reinjury, seems to be pure speculation at this point). Overall, I give Chad a solid "B", he was accurate and Sharp for a first pre-season showing.

    --Kellen Clemens was very impressive, doubly so for being a rookie. He loses a few points for playing against the Bucs second team, but in looking at the things that he did that were purely "him", i.e. throwing motion, accuracy, velocity, poise, etc, he looked very very good. A brilliant first showing, and hopefully a sign that we have a developing high quality player in him. The only real criticism I saw was that he seemed to not feel the pressure on him at time, especially when he was sacked. That is an experience/awareness thing, and he will get better at that. Overall a very good B+/A- showing from him.

    --Patrick Ramsey, well not much to say. His limited time could speak volumes, or it could say nothing.....I just cannot tell with Mangini and will not try to say I am smart enough to read his mind. However, I must say the impression I get is that Chad is the clear-cut #1 QB now, Kellen Clemens is the #2, and Ramsey and Bolly will have to battle for the #3 spot, with Bollinger likely to get "first blood" next week vs. the Skins (i.e. he'll play before Ramsey). Ramsey looked bad on his first throw, a clear and horrid miss-throw, but his other two looked solid, even if his receiver had issues holding on. I must say, I am and was in Ramsey's corner that he could make himself a quality QB. But the more camp and pre-season moves on, the less confidence I have in him. It does indeed appear that I was wrong, if not in his potential, in my view that he would thrive and fix his issues here in NY. Can't get them all right, eh? Given the lack of time, and the third string players he was with, have to give him an "I" for incomplete. Bollinger obviously gets an "I" as well.

    --The Offensive Line Team #1 looked quite good IMO. Not great on run-blocking, but pretty darn solid in Pass-blocking situations. The Bucs did get some pressure, but it was far less than I expected frankly. Another very solid B showing vs the pass, but I have to say a C showing on the run.

    --And that brings us to our Running backs. Weak. Plain old weak. As one who still believes that a Houston/Washington/Blaylock combo can be effective, I am disappointed in this first showing. I saw very little quality play, far too few good solid runs, and alot of "1 yard and a cloud of dust, down on the first hit" runs. Blaylock looked absolutely average, Houston not much better. Washington showed a little flash in my view, but not alot yet. I still have faith, but I have to give them a C- to D+ for this first effort. The running game must be improved.

    --The Wideouts looked pretty good, nice to see Cotch make a few plays, and see Coles look solid. The talk of Dwight being Chrebet is a bit pre-mature I think, but he looked fast, elusive and like he could be a good addition in 3 WR formations in a Chrebet-like role, if not a Chrebet-like production. However, I don't recall JMac's name being called out even once. Did he catch anything? Maybe it was the Bucs Network coverage (NFL Network shows Bucs side 1st half, Jets side 2nd), but I cannot remember hearing his name or seeing him make any catches. Nothing great from the depth players, cool seeing our converted QB make a catch or two, looked okay. He'll take a while to develop, obviously, but perhaps a good long-term pickup.

    --The Defense.....well, the starting D looked relatively solid. However, with the shift to the 3-4, I fear our ability to be as good vs. the run as we have been in years past. The first teamers were okay, perhaps a C+ maybe, but the 2nd teamers and back looked very bad, D- at best vs the run. Pass D wasn't horrid, but wasn't great either. The Bucs third stringers looked like he was unchallenged when throwing against us for the most part. Overall, our Defense looks to have taken a big step back, at least here at the start, and has an awful lot to learn and an awful lot of development to change to this 3-4 D and play well. Too early for any real predictions, but if we do not see improvement next week, I think our D may be weaker than any of us expected, and not the "lean on us" unit it has been in the past few years.

    --Kicking Game. Nugget kicked off pretty well, made his one FG attempt. Not much to judge him on yet. Graham punted well. Special Teams looked pretty good, and I thought that "jump and knock the ball back out of the end-zone" play by I think #55, was great. Too bad it hit the goal-line first, but a great effort.

    --Coaching. Not much to judge him on yet. Time management was fine, challenged the only real challengable play, called timeouts ok, no worries there yet. Right now, this early, it's alot of pretty "Vanilla" O-Schemes and D-Schemes, just seeing who can play, so it's far too early top judge how these new schemes will work out. The "O" does seem to love the Shift, and thats good IF the players all figure it out and stay on top of that kind of very complex offensive system. It should play well (all that movement) to Chad's abilities and style, i.e. short accurate passes and play-action. The running game must improve though for those play-action passes to work, or we'll see more of the Chad "hit in the arm" type plays on play-action. At least Mangini didn;t smile much, he looks far too soft when he smiles, but not nearly so when scowling, lol. Not a criticism, just a funny observation.

    One problem I did see was that we appear to be (again) a very conservative dink-dunk crawl-up-the-field offense. This kind of "O" requires perfection for a long, multiple play drive. Scoring drives for us look like they'll have to be 12-20 plays long. Lots of 3 yard gainers, lots of third downs, lots of short "reliable" plays. While that plays to Chad's strengths (and perhaps our RB's too), it is too slow and too "multiple-play" depending to be a reliable scoring offense. Look, if anyone screws up even once, it can kill these long drivers, and we seem to lack (with Chad) the ability to make a third and 10, 12, 15 type big throw. Now, it's far too early to say that with any surety, but at least based on todays "O", it looks very familiar to the "O" we've seen in recent years. Too many plays, too short of plays, no explosiveness, too much requirement for perfection to score TD's. Still ALOT of time to see them play before the season starts, so this is obviously a "first look" review only, and certainly is not indicative of what we could be in for come the regular season.

    Overall, it was very positive to see Chad throw and take hits without dropping dead, although that "FEAR!" will be in my throat at least every time he gets hit this season. I don't WANT to expect it, but I cannot help it. I was disappointed in our running game, disappointed in our Defensive depth. But it's only the first pre-season game, and I am not concerned yet in any real way. I want to see ALOT more of this team before I can really have a solid grasp of what they are bringing to the table this season, and before I can levy and real praise or criticism on the individual players, or the Coaches Schemes.

    I must say though, it was great to have Jets Football back again. Sitting on my couch, Ramsey Jersey on, Jets hat on, re-heated Pizza for breakfast, avoiding all the score updates so it would feel "live", screaming at the TV, getting all worked up.....man, it's great. There is nothing like Jets Football for me, and I am SOOOO happy it's back. We may not know what this season will bring us just yet, but it is an exciting time for us as Jets fans, this start of a "New Era", and I am drooling at the prospect of watching every second of it in 2006.

    J....

    E....

    T....

    S....

    JETS! JETS! JETS!

    Great summary Fish.

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    Very nice post Warfish. Can't say I disagree with any of your points. I'll tell you what, I'm not liking the 3-4 D. Sure it's only the first game but it seems to really dull down our greatest defensive strength, Jonathan Vilma. He's just not a 3-4 ILB. We also have no NT, I saw on a couple plays that Robertson was getting pushed back away from the ball by only one blocker, and the rest of the OL was roaming freely, tying up our LBs.

    The secondary looks pretty good. Very good tackling unit. Rhodes and Miller were solid. Strait played well. Eric Smith, though I was very down on the pick when it occured, looks like a good pick-up and I wouldn't be surprised to see him take Coleman's job.

    As for Pennington, I can't say I was impressed. Again, only the first game, but you can't live on the safe 5 yard passes. He just seems afraid to go downfield, but that could be expected as it is his first live game since September of last year. I'll wait to see more before I pass judgement. Clemmens, obviously, was very impressive. I'd like to see him get some snaps against first team defenses, but he looks like the real deal.

    We're going to have a real problem in the running game this year. Blaylock stinks, Houston is mediocre at best, and Martin's career is probably over, whether he retires or not. Washington didn't get enough touches for me to fairly evaluate him.

    That's my take on the game. As always, let's go Jets!

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    Nice post. I'd like to add some observations too:

    - Eric Barton looked nice, I'm glad he's back in the line up
    - Rhodes looks like a star in the making and appears to make plays effortlessly
    - Clemmens looked nice, has a quick release and puts some heat on the ball
    - Dwight looks like he will be a nice asset, made a few good plays
    - Tui looks like he could be back up NT, he's huge and made 2 nice plays
    - Darrell Adams made a few plays and stood out with the 3rd string D

    Other than that, the team was unimpressive. We failed to score any TDs. The 2nd and 3rd team defense looked pretty bad - TB ran right up the middle. Our RBs didnt seem to get any tough yards, except for a few by Houston.

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    Very nice job WarFish .
    Especially so in light of the fact that part of you has to want to be right on your Ramsey assessment at the time of the trade.

    Kudos to you for your honesty.

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    Good analysis. This was pretty close to the game I watched yesterday. After reading Mr. Moga and RMJK I was beginning to think I had the wrong channel on. Jets are indeed a work in progress, but I think if they are going to have a chance to gel offensively this year they will need to find a decent feature back to allow them to be on the field more than three and out. Houston is lumbering and Blaylock has no acceleration. Askew is very average. Washington may have a bit more to show, but I have my doubts that he can be a feature back given his size. We're not supposed to get worried this early.... guess what, I'm worried.

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    Great review Warfish, I don't really disagree with you on anything.

    The one point you mentioned that I'd like to talk about was the conservative offense. I think this is just a matter of setting up schemes and not wanting to exhaust players and go for the kill early. I hope we change it up for the season but I am not really sure how it will play out for the remainder of exhibtion games. I don't want Chad to kill himself when it doesn't count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jvill 51
    The secondary looks pretty good. Very good tackling unit. Rhodes and Miller were solid. Strait played well. Eric Smith, though I was very down on the pick when it occured, looks like a good pick-up and I wouldn't be surprised to see him take Coleman's job.

    As always, let's go Jets!
    Doesn't he have to get past Strait before he can take Coleman's job?

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    Someone's in the kitchen with Dinah...

    I know oh oh oh

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    Nice job Warfish. You covered alot of stuff that I would have if i did this kind of write up.

    This next line by me is controversial but I am bored to death with Chad Pennington and his style of quarterbacking. If The Jets win games with him. So be it. If we score points and win games. I can't complain but I don't think you can win a championship with this style of quarterback.

    It was his first game back. So I am trying to be patient and chill out here.

    Patrick Ramsey is getting a raw deal as far as I am concerned. He should have been given more of an opportunity to compete. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

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