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Thread: The craziest idea to get Quentin Moses or Adrian Peterson

  1. #1
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    The craziest idea to get Quentin Moses or Adrian Peterson

    This is insane. Another thread to cure the woes on this team. But in a crazy way.

    The offense is fine. With a little fine-tuning, and if we draft a G or RT or two -- big fat, mean, grovelly ones we're set for the year.

    But, this may shock you: Trade Jonathan Vilma.

    Trade him for a first round pick to a crap team in the NFC that really needs defensive help. Like the Packers. Or the Lions. Or the Cardinals. These teams absolutely suck. And they'll have great draft position.

    Rationale: Is Vilma the Curtis martin of LBs? He makes the occasional play, and has awesome tackle stats. He'll lead the league in tackles after his career. But the tackles aren't game changers at this point. And in the 3-4 he can't go sideline to sideline. he gets swallowed up by OL, and can't shed.

    In short, he's a SUPERIOR 4-3 MLB. A bad fit for the 3-4.

    Also. Trade Hobson for whatever we can get, trying to get that 5th rounder back, but if we can't get at least a 5th, keep him for depth. Trade Eric Coleman for whatever we can get. Even a sixth rounder.

    Now. We'd have a big fat hole at ILB, at OLB, and at S in the Mangini flex 3-4...

    Draft Like this:

    {we probably won't have the #1 pick, and I wouldn't trade Vilma to the Raiders. But we could gave the #2 pick -- possible but unlikely. If we do, we'd be staring at Adrian Peterson right in the face. But I don't stop there. I pass on Peterson. I trade down again to grab another first rounder, and hover around #5, targeting Quentin Moses. If we don't trade down, I target Quentin Moses anyway, or Gaines Adams, of course depending on their season finales and their measureables. Regradless, we're staring at a star D player. We'd have Leon Hall, Laron Landry, Moses, Adams, McCauly. Whatever, options to trade down. Sam Baker, Peterson, Joe Thomas, I'm talking options galore.

    Potential Scenarios that pop into mind:

    A -- With the trade back down:

    we get Moses, Woodley, Branch, or Leon Hall


    1. Quentin Moses 3-4 OLB
    1. Alan Branch 3-4 end/Leon Hall CB
    1. Lamaar Woodley 3-4 LB.
    2. Aaron Rouse/Eric Weddle S
    2. Brian Leonard RB, BAP
    3. Arron Sears G, RT or best G/T...Ramirez...
    4. Manny Ramirez G, BAP, etc

    B -- Without the trade back down:

    1. Quentin Moses
    1. Lamaar Woodley
    2. Aaron Rouse/Eric Weddle S /Brian Leonard FB
    2. Arron Sears G best G/T
    3. Brian Robison/Brian Smith OLB whatever
    4. Manny Ramirez

    C -- Without the trade back down {and with Adrian Peterson}

    1. Adrian Peterson ( we might have to give up additional high picks )
    1. Lamaar Woodley
    2. Tim Crowder, Dan Bazuin or some other 3-4 backer, or a star potential S like E Weddle/Rouse
    2. Arron Sears
    3. Robison/Smith
    4. Ramirez or whatever

    Potential Signees in FA:

    UFA 3-4 LB Adalius Thomas from baltimore.
    UFA CB Asante Samuel from Pats

    ----> This isn't an anti Vilma thread. It is clear that JV is struggling in the 3-4 and there is no end in sight. There are very few options as far as getting a clogger as a NT. This is a thread trying to find the optimal solution for all parties proportionate to the new facts on the ground.

    Last edited by Darth Vader; 10-10-2006 at 11:14 PM.

  2. #2
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    Interesting thoughts.

    I think we draft a S pretty high and Coleman gets cut in th offseason. I'd lik to keep Hobson- even if he's a backup I'd like to see what he can do at ILB.

    I'm not against trading Vilma for a high 1st round pick.

  3. #3
    Makes sense to trade Vilma for a draft pick if the team expects to succeed in the 3-4.

    Although I'm pretty sure at least two of Gaines Adams, Quentin Moses and Lamarr Woodley all would be in range for the Jets, who likely will be a top 10 pick finishing with 6 wins (top 15 finishing with 7).

    I doubt any of those teams would trade such a high draft pick for Vilma, as good as he is. None of them are THAT desparate for a linebacker that they'd pass up a shot to draft Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, etc. The Cardinals might be willing to swap first rounders if Vilma were offered if they end up with a top 5 pick and the Jets were a top 15 pick perhaps. Lions and Packers just drafted Sims and Hawk, so I doubt the Packers pass on Peterson/Johnson or Lions pass on Quinn/Brohm for a linebacker.

  4. #4
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    I know the Saints have started strong, my there's a team that might be crazy interested in Vilma.

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    yeah, they would be. they have patched up an absolutely horrid run defense with an entirely new LB corps. I know this team cuz i lived there for 8 years, and they really grew on me.

    Fujita from the Cowboys last year, Simoneau form Philly and Shanle -- don't know where he came from.

    Thing is they look OK, not magnificent but Payton has done a sound job sheme-wise. They each have like 30 tackles and 3 sacks!

    However, being first year guys, Payton wouldn't be married to anyone, even Simoneau, their Mike. Their run defense still stinks, and Vilma woiuld be a prize for an organization that seems to be on the cusp of ascending to the next level.

    And indoors, in the superdome, Vilma would be able to utilize his sideline-to-sideline speed to the max.

    I realized after writing the first post roughshod that 49ers was right -- GB wouldn't give up their #1 for a shot a AP. And Sims is Detroit's Vilma, having a great season so far.

    The specifics are less important than the concept at this point. And the concept is this: It might be in our mutual best interests to part company.

    It could be the ultimate respect paid to JV, and the highest consideration.

    It is possible that he could find himself in a quagmire here long-term if things stay as they are.

    Mangini didn't draft JV, and he hasn't shown a penchance for tapping into JV's talent from within the scheme.

    JV looks lost. This is something that could come up later in the season. Vilma's agent could be thinking of the wording for the memo as we speak.

    I think it is tragic, but what could we do if it is true that Vilma just doesn't fit?

    We'd have to look out for our best interest in addition to paying JV the highest consideration.

  6. #6
    Shanle was via trade with the Cowboys.

    I seriously doubt they'd trade a first for Vilma since those three are all stellar LBs and other than Fujita (their best defensive player), the other two were trades.

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    yes that is true, but Vilma is on another dimension. Those other guys are good, but Vilma is fantastic. A star.

    You put a face like Vilma's on Krispy Kreme boxes, on milk cartons; it fills the seats. And the city of NO eats ALOT of donuts...

    Where do you put Scott Fujita's face?

    And, New Orlean's run defense is still terrible...

    The real thing here is that the only guy that Vilma would endanger would be Simoneau, because Simoneau is the Mike, at this point.

    Payton would have to do something creative to fit everyone in.

    He'd have to slide the LBs around, and someone would have to sit, probably Shanle.

    But you are right, 49ers, the Saints aren't desperate for a MLB.

  8. #8
    one thing that could be done would be something like a player swap - Fujita + day 2 pick for Vilma. Fujita has ideal size, athleticism, strength and pass rush ability to play SAM backer in the 3-4 (which is what he did in Dallas)... he's 6'5 250-255 lbs, ran a 4.43 40 at his pro day, 4.64 at the combine, 42 inch vertical, Bench presses 225 pounds 20 times, 350-pound bench press, 400-pound squat, 275-pound hang clean... excellent athlete overall. He was also KC's #2 pass rusher over a two year span and has terrific shedding technique.

  9. #9
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    49ers Jets fan you are one of my fave new posters but cmon trading Scott Fujita and a day 2 draft pick for Jon Vilma is like trading a cold carton of lo main for some filet mignon.

    The man is a former pro bowler and DROY.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti
    49ers Jets fan you are one of my fave new posters but cmon trading Scott Fujita and a day 2 draft pick for Jon Vilma is like trading a cold carton of lo main for some filet mignon.

    The man is a former pro bowler and DROY.
    Thing is, you're probably not going to get a first rounder for Vilma unless it's a late first. Fujita is a young, uber-athletic, extremely intelligent up and coming player who's looking like a potential pro bowler and a far superior player in the 3-4 scheme than Vilma could ever be. Vilma may be the bigger name player but Fujita is the better fit player, not to mention not even much of a drop even in a 4-3 scheme. He was the Chiefs' best defensive player from 2003-2004 and was a tackling and pass rusher for them playing OLB and MLB.

  11. #11
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    im sure he's a better fit than Vilma but valuewise the Jets would be getting jobbed. Talented but Fujita's never really been a mainstay anywhere he's been... and he might be on waivers sooner or later.

    Vilma when used correctly is a game changer. Its not a matter of fit for system it's a matter for value

    all this being said I agree that the Jets can't dangle Vilma for AD who will be a likely top 5 pick if/when he declares. Not enough ammo for that kind of move. He is worth a late first rounder at best. Teams know when other teams don't want a certain guy and that devalues his worth on the open market.

  12. #12
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    I'd rather just keep Vilma and draft LaMarr Woodley.

    Then get a big bear at NT and we'd be in business.

    Could you imagine what Vilma, Woodley, and Barton would be capable of if we had a big Wilfork/Williams type at NT?

    SCARY!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti
    im sure he's a better fit than Vilma but valuewise the Jets would be getting jobbed. Talented but Fujita's never really been a mainstay anywhere he's been... and he might be on waivers sooner or later.

    Vilma when used correctly is a game changer. Its not a matter of fit for system it's a matter for value

    all this being said I agree that the Jets can't dangle Vilma for AD who will be a likely top 5 pick if/when he declares. Not enough ammo for that kind of move. He is worth a late first rounder at best. Teams know when other teams don't want a certain guy and that devalues his worth on the open market.
    isn't that the truth of it. It does indeed become a value-issue, where we would have to maintain the compensated return on John's real value, which becomes difficult when a team knows he doesn't fit in with you. And that real value isn't as I thought it could be, a top 10 pick, because many teams, the likely ones we'd want to target, aren't really in need of a franchise MLB, that value is still a first rounder, but definitely lower down in the round.

    In order to get in position to grab an Adrian Peterson, or Moses, we'd have to offer more than just Vilma, and that is something that is probably not worth it.

    There could be a way to egde upwards to grab a player like Moses, but it would seem that AP would be out of reach, and two first rounders probably is also.

    It is still a question of worth for me though. If JV can't be utilized correctly, and it doesn't seem like he is, something MUST be done.

    If JV doesn't have the skill-set, which is possible, only the more so.

    But his Value can't be diminished by his misuse this year, because then we are really stuck.

    If it is so that we could get a second first-rounder anywhere from the middle of the round to the end of the round, I think we'd have to seriously consider it.

    Thanks for all of your input guys. You guys really helped to clarify the issue. Any additional thoughts or new ideas are totally welcome.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49ersJetsfan
    one thing that could be done would be something like a player swap - Fujita + day 2 pick for Vilma. Fujita has ideal size, athleticism, strength and pass rush ability to play SAM backer in the 3-4 (which is what he did in Dallas)... he's 6'5 250-255 lbs, ran a 4.43 40 at his pro day, 4.64 at the combine, 42 inch vertical, Bench presses 225 pounds 20 times, 350-pound bench press, 400-pound squat, 275-pound hang clean... excellent athlete overall. He was also KC's #2 pass rusher over a two year span and has terrific shedding technique.
    Fujita is defintely a player worth watching. And I'd love to have him on the Jets.

    My starting offer would be Vilma and a fifth rounder {which we don't have yet} for Fujita and New Orleans 1st rounder.

    And I wouldn't deviate too much from it -- only perhaps making that fifth a fourth.

    For that final offer, New Orleans would then get a Pro-Bowl upgrade on defense, an extra DAY ONE pick, for I'm guessing a first round selection in the lower half.

    Of course, this is all taking place in the imagination and the draft is months away...
    Last edited by Darth Vader; 10-11-2006 at 08:50 PM.

  15. #15
    I understand the philosophy behind the idea. I think that we as an organization would have to seriously consider trading Vilma as a valuable commodity and a square peg in a round hole in Mangini's system. Value is the key. I would take no less than a 1st rounder for him. If the 1st rounder is a low pick, then we would atleast need to get our 4th round pick back (I would hope for a 3rd in the lower half of the round).

    At this point it is way too early to try and predict who would be a good trading partner for us. I think that we should wait until the year is atleast half way over to start realisticly selecting specific teams that we should start keeping an eye on for future trades.

    The key to our draft this year is going to be FA's. If we bring in an OLB, CB, OG etc... it makes our draft scenerio a lot more clear. One thing to keep in mind is that the DT/NT FA class has very little to offer. It seems as though we would need to address that position in the draft on day 1, howevr, keep in mind that we have a couple of young, potential starters coming off the IR for next year that could also be affective in the 3-4 scheme as NT's too.

    I still want to trade down and draft M. Bush in the first round. He would be a true franchise power back for us. Then we should spend the rest of our first day of the draft on defense, followed up in the 4th round with a big nasty OG.

  16. #16
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    how does creating one hole on the team to potentially fill another hole make sense???

  17. #17
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    Fujita had a very good game today, 8 tackles, a sack and an INT.

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