Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Winning Ugly is better than Losing Pretty

  1. #1
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782

    Winning Ugly is better than Losing Pretty

    First and foremost they won, even with all the problems in the first half the score was 12-6. That's close enough to go into half time, make adjustments and win, had the game been real. Mangini and co. are good at that, unlike the previous CS they will make adjustments for the second half.

    Last year this team proved they can win despite being outmatched across the board. They proved they can win despite a lack of weapons. They proved they could beat good defenses, including the Patriots. But they rarely were favored and they always kept it closer than national consensus would predict beforehand.

    As for Clemens, he hasn't proven jack squat. His career consists of 7 preseason games against scrubs and 1 garbage time appearance in Jacksonville. Don't get me wrong, I like Clemens, he's an interesting player, and could be very good given the chance, but he's not the starter, so just forget about it, Jets fans. There is a huge difference between beating 2nd and 3rd teamers and doing it for real.

    If you guys want to go nuts, freak out and cry, that's your business. I'll keep the faith in Mangini, Chad and the rest of the starters. Don't forget that even with the loss of Kendall this is a team returning 20 of 22 starters from last year's 10-6 team - a team that won ugly a-lot of the time.

    I guess I just don't get what people expect out of this team.

    If you are expecting nice relaxing games, where the outcome is predetermined and stress-free, well, this is not the team for you. Maybe the N.F.L. is not the entertainment for you. This team, like all teams, are going to make mistakes. This team is very young across the board so they might make bad mistakes on occasion. DBrick for example is 22. 22 year old players make mistakes. That being said they are a better team than they have showed this preseason, they are well coached and they can beat anyone on any given Sunday. I believe that fully, and you should too.

    They aren't going to go 16-0, no one does. But even more than that, this is not a team that will line up and blow other teams out of the water... they win with smoke and mirrors, we all should know that as fans.

    Trust me when i say we ain't seeing the smoke and we ain't seeing the mirrors, not until week 1.

    The smart thing to do is reserve judgment until the games count.
    Last edited by bitonti; 08-26-2007 at 03:26 AM.

  2. #2
    I don't see the big deal really. The Jets are still only 1 win away from being in serious contention for the preseason championship.

    The fact is that there is no way to win in preseason. They look good and it doesn't count because it's only preseason. They put up gaudy numbers and it's looked at as "shooting their load". They look rusty and it's the end of the world because it means that it will definitely carry over throughout the entire season. They make mistakes and it means they either forgot how to play, are unprepared, or have lost their skill set.

    There really isn't anything you can say about preseason. It is what it is. The things that are looking terrible may in fact be terrible, but they may also be a result of vanilla play-calling, specific strategies, rust, or a general lack of extra effort because it is only the preseason. The things that are looking good may in fact be good, but they may also be a result of the other team's vanilla play-calling, luck, or the other team's general lack of extra effort because it is only the preseason.

    Between now and kickoff against the Patriots there are so many things that can and will change. The people that are injured won't be, the people that aren't might be, the game-plan will be different, the roster will be different, the players will be more prepared, etc., etc. There really isn't any reason to get hyped over anything or panic right now. Sure, it's the only thing we see right now, but speculation isn't going to change what it is. Either the team is prepared or they're not. Either they have the talent to win or they don't. There's no way to tell that now. We won't know that until the Patriots come to town. Perhaps not until later.

    Honestly, I don't know what else I expect though. This is the very nature of football fans. I guess it would just be nice if everyone could just take things for what they are worth and understand that they don't know everything about what's best for the team. Maybe some semblance of moderation in regards to the magnitude of response. Especially during preseason. Goodness.

  3. #3
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    8,650
    nobody cares what the final score of a damn preseason game is. that's not the point of the games. they are there to evaluate talent, and find out how players play in real time situations.

  4. #4
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    8,650
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti
    As for Clemens, he hasn't proven jack squat. His career consists of 7 preseason games against scrubs and 1 garbage time appearance in Jacksonville.
    i like this line, it makes me laugh. ok, serious question, how is KC supposed to prove himself with your POV? how is ANY new qb supposed to prove himself besides injury to the starter?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalomaniac
    nobody cares what the final score of a damn preseason game is.
    I agree with that.

  6. #6
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,179
    Bit you are right the Jets can only win with smoke and mirrors because they just aren't that good. After 7 years and two shoulder surgeries, how much more smoke can Chad blow up the league's a$$.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 08-26-2007 at 05:50 AM.

  7. #7
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    304 Row 24
    Posts
    2,235
    Does it really matter that our SECOND team won this game?? Our 1st team O and D sucked. Clemens and co. would look silly against Giants 1st D. So, we lost.

  8. #8
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    443
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarcho Fukayama
    I don't see the big deal really. The Jets are still only 1 win away from being in serious contention for the preseason championship.

    The fact is that there is no way to win in preseason. They look good and it doesn't count because it's only preseason. They put up gaudy numbers and it's looked at as "shooting their load". They look rusty and it's the end of the world because it means that it will definitely carry over throughout the entire season. They make mistakes and it means they either forgot how to play, are unprepared, or have lost their skill set.

    There really isn't anything you can say about preseason. It is what it is. The things that are looking terrible may in fact be terrible, but they may also be a result of vanilla play-calling, specific strategies, rust, or a general lack of extra effort because it is only the preseason. The things that are looking good may in fact be good, but they may also be a result of the other team's vanilla play-calling, luck, or the other team's general lack of extra effort because it is only the preseason.

    Between now and kickoff against the Patriots there are so many things that can and will change. The people that are injured won't be, the people that aren't might be, the game-plan will be different, the roster will be different, the players will be more prepared, etc., etc. There really isn't any reason to get hyped over anything or panic right now. Sure, it's the only thing we see right now, but speculation isn't going to change what it is. Either the team is prepared or they're not. Either they have the talent to win or they don't. There's no way to tell that now. We won't know that until the Patriots come to town. Perhaps not until later.

    Honestly, I don't know what else I expect though. This is the very nature of football fans. I guess it would just be nice if everyone could just take things for what they are worth and understand that they don't know everything about what's best for the team. Maybe some semblance of moderation in regards to the magnitude of response. Especially during preseason. Goodness.
    Great post. I agree completely.

  9. #9
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    NC via NY
    Posts
    8,794
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarcho Fukayama
    I don't see the big deal really. The Jets are still only 1 win away from being in serious contention for the preseason championship.

    The fact is that there is no way to win in preseason. They look good and it doesn't count because it's only preseason. They put up gaudy numbers and it's looked at as "shooting their load". They look rusty and it's the end of the world because it means that it will definitely carry over throughout the entire season. They make mistakes and it means they either forgot how to play, are unprepared, or have lost their skill set.

    There really isn't anything you can say about preseason. It is what it is. The things that are looking terrible may in fact be terrible, but they may also be a result of vanilla play-calling, specific strategies, rust, or a general lack of extra effort because it is only the preseason. The things that are looking good may in fact be good, but they may also be a result of the other team's vanilla play-calling, luck, or the other team's general lack of extra effort because it is only the preseason.

    Between now and kickoff against the Patriots there are so many things that can and will change. The people that are injured won't be, the people that aren't might be, the game-plan will be different, the roster will be different, the players will be more prepared, etc., etc. There really isn't any reason to get hyped over anything or panic right now. Sure, it's the only thing we see right now, but speculation isn't going to change what it is. Either the team is prepared or they're not. Either they have the talent to win or they don't. There's no way to tell that now. We won't know that until the Patriots come to town. Perhaps not until later.

    Honestly, I don't know what else I expect though. This is the very nature of football fans. I guess it would just be nice if everyone could just take things for what they are worth and understand that they don't know everything about what's best for the team. Maybe some semblance of moderation in regards to the magnitude of response. Especially during preseason. Goodness.
    Welcome to JI....

  10. #10
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Boynton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    6,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalomaniac
    nobody cares what the final score of a damn preseason game is. that's not the point of the games. they are there to evaluate talent, and find out how players play in real time situations.

    In the preseason I would rather lose looking good then win looking ugly. Looking ugly in the preseason generally corresponds to a ugly season. In the regular season just win any way you can.

  11. #11
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida, United States
    Posts
    12,867
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti
    First and foremost they won, even with all the problems in the first half the score was 12-6. That's close enough to go into half time, make adjustments and win, had the game been real. Mangini and co. are good at that, unlike the previous CS they will make adjustments for the second half.

    Last year this team proved they can win despite being outmatched across the board. They proved they can win despite a lack of weapons. They proved they could beat good defenses, including the Patriots. But they rarely were favored and they always kept it closer than national consensus would predict beforehand.

    As for Clemens, he hasn't proven jack squat. His career consists of 7 preseason games against scrubs and 1 garbage time appearance in Jacksonville. Don't get me wrong, I like Clemens, he's an interesting player, and could be very good given the chance, but he's not the starter, so just forget about it, Jets fans. There is a huge difference between beating 2nd and 3rd teamers and doing it for real.

    If you guys want to go nuts, freak out and cry, that's your business. I'll keep the faith in Mangini, Chad and the rest of the starters. Don't forget that even with the loss of Kendall this is a team returning 20 of 22 starters from last year's 10-6 team - a team that won ugly a-lot of the time.

    I guess I just don't get what people expect out of this team.

    If you are expecting nice relaxing games, where the outcome is predetermined and stress-free, well, this is not the team for you. Maybe the N.F.L. is not the entertainment for you. This team, like all teams, are going to make mistakes. This team is very young across the board so they might make bad mistakes on occasion. DBrick for example is 22. 22 year old players make mistakes. That being said they are a better team than they have showed this preseason, they are well coached and they can beat anyone on any given Sunday. I believe that fully, and you should too.

    They aren't going to go 16-0, no one does. But even more than that, this is not a team that will line up and blow other teams out of the water... they win with smoke and mirrors, we all should know that as fans.

    Trust me when i say we ain't seeing the smoke and we ain't seeing the mirrors, not until week 1.

    The smart thing to do is reserve judgment until the games count.
    some of this nonsense is getting rather weak! Kellen outplayed CHAD. Chad played a depleted GIANTS DEFENSE that everyone else has shreadded! He got a lucky break on a NEON LEON TD run off a underthrown ball. The CB went to get the ball and didn't and now CHAD is all world!

    We ought to be happy we beat our arch rivals. Instead we are embroiled in a CHAD PENNINGTON BS thread! Enough bit! If you want to talk football, do it fairly and just the facts. save the nonsense for people that like that fluff nonsense!


    A QB has to execute against everyone. CHAD "scored" a TD against a weak Giants Defense without its best DE. WOW! Bit I truly am impressed. That shows whata great QB CHAD really is!
    A GIANT START
    DESPITE LOSS, BIG BLUE STARTERS DOMINATE JETS
    By PAUL SCHWARTZ
    LOOK OUT, CHAD! Giants defensive end Osi Umenyiora sacks Chad Pennington in the first quarter of the Jets' 20-12 victory last night.August 26, 2007 -- The Giants dominated on the field but not on the scoreboard last night while their starters were in action against the Jets. It was a 12-6 Giants lead at halftime before the reserves finished up and faltered in a 20-12 preseason loss to the Jets at humid and sweaty Giants Stadium.

    After the Jets struck suddenly for a 79-yard touchdown on the very first play, the Giants dominated the remainder of the first half, outgaining the Jets 201 to minus-13 in yardage. Playing the first half, Eli Manning (17 of 35, 146 yards, 1 TD) was solid but not especially productive.

    "As an offense, we have to find a way to keep the ball alive and drive down there and get touchdowns," Manning said. "Coming into tonight, we knew the Jets had been a kind of 'bend but don't break' defense and that's exactly what happened."

    On defense, the Giants figure to have Michael Strahan back this coming week, as he's finally expected to end his holdout. Without him, the starting defense last night had one monumental lapse and then was rock-solid. Running back Leon Washington breezed out of the backfield and when Chad Pennington pump-faked, cornerback R.W. McQuarters bit big-time, leaving Washington free on the right sideline. Not only did Washington make the catch, but he cut inside past lunging safety James Butler and was gone. One play, 79 yards, one touchdown and a 6-0 Jets lead after Mike Nugent's extra point failed.

    "I'm not sure exactly what happened on that first play, but it was ugly," linebacker Antonio Pierce said.

    "The quarterback got me on the pump fake," McQuarters said. "I thought he was going to throw, so I tried to jump it, but I should have stayed down and fell back deep. It was just one of those things and I messed it up."

    After that, the defense went seven consecutive series without allowing a first down and Strahan this week will be added to the mix.

  12. #12
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,844
    Excellent post as ever Bitonti...there's a reason why I always stop to read your posts and this is it.

    If anything experience has taught me that it's more worrying to go into a season on a pre-season roll with everyone talking us up as SB contenders than with some serious question marks.

    Like you I've seen enough from both the coaches and Chad to believe we have what it takes to deliver when it matters and more than anything as a franchise we are moving in the right direction

    As Chairman Mao once said...'a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step'

  13. #13
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Not bababooey and I resent the implication
    Posts
    20,936
    This team won ugly last year against a last placed schedule and drawing the horrid NFC north. Lets see how they fair against stiffer competition returning 20 of 22 starters...

  14. #14
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Posts
    9,932
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti
    First and foremost they won, even with all the problems in the first half the score was 12-6. That's close enough to go into half time, make adjustments and win, had the game been real. Mangini and co. are good at that, unlike the previous CS they will make adjustments for the second half.

    Last year this team proved they can win despite being outmatched across the board. They proved they can win despite a lack of weapons. They proved they could beat good defenses, including the Patriots. But they rarely were favored and they always kept it closer than national consensus would predict beforehand.

    As for Clemens, he hasn't proven jack squat. His career consists of 7 preseason games against scrubs and 1 garbage time appearance in Jacksonville. Don't get me wrong, I like Clemens, he's an interesting player, and could be very good given the chance, but he's not the starter, so just forget about it, Jets fans. There is a huge difference between beating 2nd and 3rd teamers and doing it for real.

    If you guys want to go nuts, freak out and cry, that's your business. I'll keep the faith in Mangini, Chad and the rest of the starters. Don't forget that even with the loss of Kendall this is a team returning 20 of 22 starters from last year's 10-6 team - a team that won ugly a-lot of the time.

    I guess I just don't get what people expect out of this team.

    If you are expecting nice relaxing games, where the outcome is predetermined and stress-free, well, this is not the team for you. Maybe the N.F.L. is not the entertainment for you. This team, like all teams, are going to make mistakes. This team is very young across the board so they might make bad mistakes on occasion. DBrick for example is 22. 22 year old players make mistakes. That being said they are a better team than they have showed this preseason, they are well coached and they can beat anyone on any given Sunday. I believe that fully, and you should too.

    They aren't going to go 16-0, no one does. But even more than that, this is not a team that will line up and blow other teams out of the water... they win with smoke and mirrors, we all should know that as fans.

    Trust me when i say we ain't seeing the smoke and we ain't seeing the mirrors, not until week 1.

    The smart thing to do is reserve judgment until the games count.
    In the preseason it's much more important to look good and play well then win.
    I agree n the regular season that it's more important to win, but not in preseason.

    The Jets were embarassed last night, plain and simple. No amount of smoke and mirrors are going to cover up the fact that their left side of their OL is a disaster right now. Pennington could only do 3 step drops because he was surrounded afterwards, They couldn't run to the left at all, basically teams can load up on the right side against the run, and blitz the left side against the pass and simply dare the Jets to beat them.

    Also, their DL looked completely overmatched, what good is it to keep 20 of 22 starters if 4 of the most importnat ones aren't good.

  15. #15
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Blue Ridge Mtns. of Virginia
    Posts
    2,849
    I think that you are right to suggest that people should chill out, Bit. I think you are right that Chad is and should be the starter, and that the smoke and mirrors haven't come out yet.

    But I also can't stand it when people (not neccessarily in this thread, but some on this board) suggest that you can't tell anything from preseason. That's just not true. Last year at this time I strongly suspected that people were underrating the Jets because they had really surprised me with their impressive, energetic, well-prepared play in preseason (and, in fact, this is about the time I decided to trust that feeling and put a couple of hundred bucks on the "over" for Jets wins in the season). This year is just the opposite ... the Jets look overmatched, underprepared, unsure of themselves. They look terrible, and I'm very concerned that this year people have overrated the Jets. I don't want to feel that, and I've seen enough preseason football to know that A LOT could change between now and week 1, so I'm reserving judgement. But I'm not feeling real comfortable at all.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us