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Thread: Opinion: Vilma Will See a Lot of Time at OLB this Year

  1. #1
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    Opinion: Vilma Will See a Lot of Time at OLB this Year

    David Harris is showing why he was ranked as a top 3 LB in this draft and he can make plays in the 3-4 that frankly Jonathan Vilma just isn't. However, Vilma is one hell of a football player. Football players can play football. Vilma's speed needs to be utilized in this defense. With Barton and Harris both proving to be more solid and consistent taking on blockers up the middle, holding their ground and getting off blocks to make tackles, why would we not use Vilma to rush off the edge?

    In the running game, OLBs in the 3-4 are normally taking on TEs or fullbacks in the running game. I like Vilma's chances vs. them better then I do vs. 325 lb Guards. And in the passing game, while he would not be big enough to ever really bullrush a Tackle if the Tackle is able to engage him, he is fast enough to blow deep past him thus forcing the QB to either step up in the pocket thus limiting his room to operate and throw, or step up and roll to the side Vilma just blitzed from thus forcing the QB to throw the ball on the run while flushed out of the pocket. You would want to line him up on the left side of a right-handed QB and on the right side of a left-handed QB. This way, if the QB does roll toward his vacated area, he is throwing while on the run from an unnatural position rather then a right-handed QB rolling right and vice versa.

    Just because we haven't seen this during the preseason I won't be surprised to see it during the regular season. Mangini doesn't want to show Bellichick or anyone else anything. I expect to see Vilma lined up some at OLB vs. New England in week 1.
    Last edited by JMJ; 08-30-2007 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #2
    OLB in the 3-4 routinely take on Offensive Tackles. That's why they are generally bigger than ILB. So Vilma would get crushed there.

    Better to move him to Safety where he could use his speed. Or some kind of 5th LB/DB hybrid.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever
    OLB in the 3-4 routinely take on Offensive Tackles. That's why they are generally bigger than ILB. So Vilma would get crushed there.

    Better to move him to Safety where he could use his speed. Or some kind of 5th LB/DB hybrid.
    Not in the run game they don't. Tackles take on the DE in a 3-4 (typically), the guards go to the 2nd level looking to put a body on the ILBs (typically), and the TEs/FBs are repsonsible for leading a back to the oustide (typically).

    He would take on Tackles in the passing game but I clearly pointed that out and explained it in the original post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ITWT
    David Harris is showing why he was ranked as a top 3 LB in this draft and he can make plays in the 3-4 that frankly Jonathan Vilma just isn't. However, Vilma is one hell of a football player. Football players can play football. Vilma's speed needs to be utilized in this defense. With Barton and Harris both proving to be more solid and consistent taking on blockers up the middle, holding their ground and getting off blocks to make tackles, why would we not use Vilma to rush off the edge?

    In the running game, OLBs in the 3-4 are normally taking on TEs or fullbacks in the running game. I like Vilma's chances vs. them better then I do vs. 325 lb Guards. And in the passing game, while he would not be big enough to ever really bullrush a Tackle if the Tackle is able to engage him, he is fast enough to blow deep past him thus forcing the QB to either step up in the pocket thus limiting his room to operate and throw, or step up and roll to the side Vilma just blitzed from thus forcing the QB to throw the ball on the run while flushed out of the pocket. You would want to line him up on the left side of a right-handed QB and on the right side of a left-handed QB. This way, if the QB does roll toward his vacated area, he is throwing while on the run from an unnatural position rather then a right-handed QB rolling right and vice versa.

    Just because we haven't seen this during the preseason I won't be surprised to see it during the regular season. Mangini doesn't want to show Bellichick or anyone else anything. I expect to see Vilma lined up some at OLB vs. New England in week 1.
    I expect a lot of movement in the D this year. Mangini, like Belichek, is all about player versitility. You create different looks by having a player start in one position and moving around to confuse a QB. This is what typically killed Manning against the Pats as his first instinct is to audible as soon as he thinks he sees something. If you can disguise the true play you can sometimes get him to audible right into your hands. I expect Vilma to blitz some more this year and fall back into coverage a lot, letting Harris manange run support with one of the OLBs.
    That is why judging this team by preseason games without any of the schemes, tricks or plans in place that make it tick is silly. Granted this didn't have anything to do with the poor O-line play but it could have something to do with the D-line play as a 3-4 d-line is more about taking up space and filling holes than about pass rush.

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    I still see Vilma as a non factor this year. Revis and Harris will steal the spot light this year. And possibly the end of Johnathan Vilma in New York.

    I don't think any kind of defensive alignment is going to help out.

    Personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ITWT

    Just because we haven't seen this during the preseason I won't be surprised to see it during the regular season. Mangini doesn't want to show Bellichick or anyone else anything. I expect to see Vilma lined up some at OLB vs. New England in week 1.
    Matt Light: 6'4" 310 lbs
    Ryan O'Callaghan 6'7" 335 lbs
    Jonathan Vilma 6'1" 225 lbs

    Do yopu really think Mangini is that stupid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ITWT
    Not in the run game they don't. Tackles take on the DE in a 3-4 (typically), the guards go to the 2nd level looking to put a body on the ILBs (typically), and the TEs/FBs are repsonsible for leading a back to the oustide (typically).

    He would take on Tackles in the passing game but I clearly pointed that out and explained it in the original post.
    The OLB in a 3-4 are hybrid 4-3 Ends. Vilma is not big enought to play on the outside in the 3-4. He would get blocked by Tackles and Pulling Guards when teams run to the outside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conkboy
    The OLB in a 3-4 are hybrid 4-3 Ends. Vilma is not big enought to play on the outside in the 3-4. He would get blocked by Tackles and Pulling Guards when teams run to the outside.
    If I didn't say so ...... I meant in primarily passing downs. I said "as an edge rusher."

    I mentioned the running game because some teams still run the ball on 3rd and 4 (especially against us), but the post was primarily pointed toward passing downs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ITWT
    If I didn't say so ...... I meant in primarily passing downs. I said "as an edge rusher."

    I mentioned the running game because some teams still run the ball on 3rd and 4 (especially against us), but the post was primarily pointed toward passing downs.
    OK, I'll play.

    So let's say it is a 3rd and 8 (a sure passing down).

    Brady comes to the LOS and recognizes that Vilma is lined up at the ROLB position.

    How long do you would think it would take him to audible a sweep toss to Maroney with Light and Mankins blowing Vilma 10 yards backwards?

    Again, Vilma is way too small to play OLB in the 3-4 defense.

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    Although I respect your creativity, sorry it's not going to happen. I would be much more intrigued by moving Vilma to SS, but that will not happen this season.

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    Believe it or not (and don't laugh at me) I've actually been kicking something around in my head the last couple of days.

    If Harris is just to good to ignore and he takes over as our starting ILB I was thinking about Vilma making the move to safety.

    Vilma definitely has the skillset to play the position when you look at his size, speed and tackling ability and football smarts.

    I don't know how Kerry Rhodes would feel about that though.

    Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARodKeyWestJetsFan
    Believe it or not (and don't laugh at me) I've actually been kicking something around around in my head the last couple of days.

    If Harris is just to good to ignore and he takes over as our starting ILB I was thinking about Vilma moving to safety.

    Vilma definitely has the skillset to play the position when you look at his size, speed and tackling ability and football smarts.

    I don't know how Kerry Rhodes would feel about that though.

    Thoughts?
    Vilma moving to SS makes a whole lot more sense than moving him to OLB.

    Still, he'd be responsible for TE coverage and also WR coverage in a 5-wide formation.

    Although Vilma is very quick, does he have the speed (different than quickness) to stay with a fast TE (Ben Watson on a deep middle seam pattern ) or a WR running a deep pattern?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX
    Vilma moving to SS makes a whole lot more sense than moving him to OLB.

    Still, he'd be responsible for TE coverage and also WR coverage in a 5-wide formation.

    Although Vilma is very quick, does he have the speed (different than quickness) to stay with a fast TE (Ben Watson on a deep middle seam pattern ) or a WR running a deep pattern?
    I don't know TX, that's why I'm asking all of you for your opinions.

    I've seen him chase down RB's from behind, but in full pass protection?

    I don't know.
    Last edited by ARodFLKeysJetsFan; 08-30-2007 at 09:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARodKeyWestJetsFan
    I don't know TX, that's why I'm asking all of you for your opinions.

    I've seen him chase down RB's from behind, but in full pass protection?

    I don't know.

    What's Vilma's 40 time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX
    What's Vilma's 40 time?
    Found it:

    Height: 6-0
    Weight: 230
    40-Yard Dash: 4.65


    4.65 is a little slow for any DB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARodKeyWestJetsFan
    Believe it or not (and don't laugh at me) I've actually been kicking something around in my head the last couple of days.

    If Harris is just to good to ignore and he takes over as our starting ILB I was thinking about Vilma making the move to safety.

    Vilma definitely has the skillset to play the position when you look at his size, speed and tackling ability and football smarts.

    I don't know how Kerry Rhodes would feel about that though.

    Thoughts?
    I think Kerry Rhodes would welcome Vilma. They wouldn't play the same position anyway, Rhodes is our FS and Vilma would be our SS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX
    What's Vilma's 40 time?
    Jonathan Vilma, linebacker
    Vilma was 6-0, 233 pounds and had a 4.61 second average in the 40.

    That's from his UM pro-day workouts.

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    Vilma at SS on running downs might be an idea. He doesn't strike me as quick enough though to be reliable in pass defense...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARodKeyWestJetsFan
    Jonathan Vilma, linebacker
    Vilma was 6-0, 233 pounds and had a 4.61 second average in the 40.

    That's from his UM pro-day workouts.
    Ideally, you would want your FS and SS to be sub 4.6 in the 40.

    BTW ARod, did Vilma have DShrimp on his back when he weighed in at 233 lbs?

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    We can overanalyze day an night...

    Or, we can call a spade a spade...

    Vilma is a talented 4-3 MLB who doesn't have a place in this defense.

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