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Thread: Trading down is a big possibility

  1. #1
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    Trading down is a big possibility

    This team is headed for a Top 10 pick and I'm starting to think we should be looking to move down.

    For example, if we're picking at #8 I'd much rather trade down into the #12-15 area while picking up an extra 2nd round selection in the process.

    So far our biggest weaknesses IMO are: OLB, NT, OG, RT

    Now, we're pretty much sh*t outta luck as far as NT's go. There are no quality players in the draft and there are no solid stop gaps in free agency. Hopefully Pouha is the answer because D-Rob sure as hell isn't.

    Trading down a few spots and picking up an extra first day pick is the way to go if you ask me. Take a passrusher like Groves or Harvey after a tradedown and with the two 2nd rounders pickup a few quality O-linemen.

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    if Harvey declares, my guess is he's a top 10 pick, and a better fit for 4-3 anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    if Harvey declares, my guess is he's a top 10 pick, and a better fit for 4-3 anyway.
    there are so many great players -- both via NFL draft and FA -- that we wind up saying this about.

    which begs the question: from a personnel standpoint, what CS, what FO, what owner that knows anything about the market* and the logistics of getting the right personnel, would in their right mind think its in any organization's best interest to play a 34?

    It seems like over 70% of all players relevant to the question don't fit in with the idea of "34 personnel".

    *the scarcity of programs that manufacture ready-to-go 34 talent, the scarcity of NFL franchises that are letting prime 34 talent hit FA, and the finally, the rarity of athlete that will even fit the type...

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    in other words. i don't even understand the basic appeal through the basic difficulties.

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    Darth it's a good question and I would answer it by saying there are probably a-lot of teams out there that wish they could run the 3-4, but don't for personnel reasons.

    The only thing i can counter in the Jets defense is that if you draft a guy at 4 overall like Drob or 12 overall like Vilma, the hope is the player is dominating enough to "defy scheme."

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    NT in the draft are hard to find.

    But from what I read Isaac Sopoaga from the Niners is a free agent. Perfect fit for the system, player with huge upside but not really developed so far in San Fran...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Darth it's a good question and I would answer it by saying there are probably a-lot of teams out there that wish they could run the 3-4, but don't for personnel reasons.

    The only thing i can counter in the Jets defense is that if you draft a guy at 4 overall like Drob or 12 overall like Vilma, the hope is the player is dominating enough to "defy scheme."
    thanx

    it seems so much less efficient organizationally, and therefore less realistic in the bottomline.

    granted great 43 players are also rare. And there is far greater demand for 43 talent with a far larger pool of talent than the 34 pool.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming Mo View Post
    NT in the draft are hard to find.

    But from what I read Isaac Sopoaga from the Niners is a free agent. Perfect fit for the system, player with huge upside but not really developed so far in San Fran...
    Does he start for the Niners? You ever see him play?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    This team is headed for a Top 10 pick and I'm starting to think we should be looking to move down.

    For example, if we're picking at #8 I'd much rather trade down into the #12-15 area while picking up an extra 2nd round selection in the process.

    So far our biggest weaknesses IMO are: OLB, NT, OG, RT

    Now, we're pretty much sh*t outta luck as far as NT's go. There are no quality players in the draft and there are no solid stop gaps in free agency. Hopefully Pouha is the answer because D-Rob sure as hell isn't.


    Trading down a few spots and picking up an extra first day pick is the way to go if you ask me. Take a passrusher like Groves or Harvey after a tradedown and with the two 2nd rounders pickup a few quality O-linemen.
    Theres no dominant NT prospects or FAs...but Spogoda of the 49ers is a FA and he's been great for them this year. He's big and strong, and he's learning better technique. Dixon (Miami) should come out, and he's an excellent athlete with excellent size...not a round 1 elite guy like Hampton or Wilfork...but a very nice project with huge potential. Frank Morton...Marcus Harrison...Kory Robertson...Matt Malele...

    Theres actually talent at NT this year.

    I would rather have Terrance Taylor or BJ Raji...but Dixon wouldn't be bad...Malele is good depth at worst...

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    albert haynesworth

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    Dixon wont come out, he isnt even starting this year, plus he hasn`t been all that great that season.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jagr68 View Post
    Dixon wont come out, he isnt even starting this year, plus he hasn`t been all that great that season.
    He's also a Hurricane with NFL talent. Those guys always leave early at Miami.

    Ron Brace from BC probably won't declare early, but he might be just as good as Raji.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 10-09-2007 at 06:50 PM.

  13. #13
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    trading down is always a possibility when you draft in the top ten (or a at the very least a desperate wish for fans of those teams- no offense meant, just the truth from experience)....of course it takes two to tango and as bad as one team may want to trade down they need a trading partner....

    unfortunately next April's draft may be kind of thin up top (like my scalp) hence I don't expect a lot of teams clamoring to may a jump up for any one specific player...

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    Give me Darren McFadden or give me death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    trading down is always a possibility when you draft in the top ten (or a at the very least a desperate wish for fans of those teams- no offense meant, just the truth from experience)....of course it takes two to tango and as bad as one team may want to trade down they need a trading partner....

    unfortunately next April's draft may be kind of thin up top (like my scalp) hence I don't expect a lot of teams clamoring to may a jump up for any one specific player...
    I agree. IMO all of the 32 GM's want to trade down and pick up extra picks. There will be an occasional team that will fall in love with a guy or need to fill a postion but don't count on it. IMO salary slotting, and the draft expense (giving up a second) are also detrimental factors. I am thinking of Cedric Benson out in Chicago, he is the fourth pick in the draft, you pay him a ton of money, you are forced to dispose of your starter , Thomas Jones, you have to play Benson, and he looks like a dissapointment, this really screws the Franchise. In referance to slotting I wonder how you could find out the differance in the financial commitment to the player, lets say 8 versus 15.
    I believe there is a favorable bias to trade down, so much so, that the Jets saw an opprotunity by trading up for Revis and Harris, IMO Carolina over valued trading down. Examine lower second and third round picks in the 2007 draft. IMO the Jets did well by trading up for Revis and Harris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    in other words. i don't even understand the basic appeal through the basic difficulties.
    That's easy. When you run the 3-4 you play three tackles and four linebackers. It's actually the 4-3 that requires the scarce resource, not the other way around.

    This is also why Suggs is a pipe dream.

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    Yeah, good luck finding a trade partner in this draft.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aten View Post
    That's easy. When you run the 3-4 you play three tackles and four linebackers. It's actually the 4-3 that requires the scarce resource, not the other way around.

    This is also why Suggs is a pipe dream.
    thats a good point Aten (wait are we getting into econ 101 again...) the difference is, the personnel is you are talking about are highly specialized. They aren't just LBs and Tackles.

    there is little to no (genuine) mutuality between the DL and LBs in these two schemes. They require different sets of instincts, different techniques, and different bodies.

    they aren't really interchangeable. there are actually two subsets to each position, with differences in between, and additionally, the 34 has an entirely unique position in the 34 NG.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    thats a good point Aten (wait are we getting into econ 101 again...) the difference is, the personnel is you are talking about are highly specialized. They aren't just LBs and Tackles.

    there is little to no (genuine) mutuality between the DL and LBs in these two schemes. They require different sets of instincts, different techniques, and different bodies.

    they aren't really interchangeable. there are actually two subsets to each position, with differences in between, and additionally, the 34 has an entirely unique position in the 34 NG.
    At the end of the day they're just linebackers and tackles. The 3-4 being easier to assemble in terms of personnel is a big reason for its current revival. There are only so many ends to go around. It's not even a real argument. Look where they get drafted. Look how they get paid.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    This team is headed for a Top 10 pick and I'm starting to think we should be looking to move down.

    For example, if we're picking at #8 I'd much rather trade down into the #12-15 area while picking up an extra 2nd round selection in the process.

    So far our biggest weaknesses IMO are: OLB, NT, OG, RT

    Now, we're pretty much sh*t outta luck as far as NT's go. There are no quality players in the draft and there are no solid stop gaps in free agency. Hopefully Pouha is the answer because D-Rob sure as hell isn't.

    Trading down a few spots and picking up an extra first day pick is the way to go if you ask me. Take a passrusher like Groves or Harvey after a tradedown and with the two 2nd rounders pickup a few quality O-linemen.
    How about BJ Raji at NT?

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