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Thread: The folks who are saying Kellen was so-so are missing the point

  1. #1
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    The folks who are saying Kellen was so-so are missing the point

    I love you guys and I'm not smarter than any of you, let me say that right off the bat and I mean that from the bottom of my heart, it's not just lip service, it's not false modesty, I'm no smarter than the next guy and I am very fond of the fans on this board for the most part, barring the occasional nitwit who just likes to argue for the sake of argument, but IMO the overwhelming majority of fans on this board are decent people and very knowledgable about football .. that's why I love this site and that's why I'm very fond of most posters, yes, even most of the Patsie fans, and yes, even most of the fans with whom I have an occasional disagreement

    Having said that, AND I MEAN IT, I must respectfully disagree with those who believe Kellen was so-so yesterday or in his three starts as a whole .. I think you're missing the point and you're not judging this player on the right scale, that being the "neophyte scale" which differs from the "veteran scale", especially in regard to Quarterbacks

    IMO you don't look at Kellen Clemens first three starts and say it's okay, but it's not John Unitas

    John Unitas wasn't "JOHN UNITAS" after his first three starts either, but if you paid attention and judged Unitas on the right scale, the neophyte scale, I'll bet he showed some flashes of brilliance, toughness, poise, some of that classic savvy in the two minute offense, and many of the attributes that came to define John Unitas {and all of the special QB's} over time .. the only difference being, as the game slowed down those positives became more and more prononced and and he performed at that level with a much greater degree of consistency .. but that's what you're looking for in a neophyte QB, flashes of brilliance, toughness, poise, two minute savvy, etc.

    We already know Kellen has the tools, good arm, I think we can all agree on that, but it's those other attributes that will define his career barring injuries and I've seen enough of those attributes to offer Kellen some pretty high marks on the neophyte scale .. I saw it against a pretty tough Ravens defense in his first start, a pretty decent Redskins defense in his second start, and I saw those flashes again verses the leagues #1 rated defense {Steelers} on Sunday, even without his #1 WR and even in the face of a pretty fearsome pass-rush with multiple variations of the blitz

    Lastly, IMO you should be very excited about Kellen Clemens based on what we have seen thus far, you should be very excited about his potential and his future, and in my view he recieves high marks after three games if you're judging him on the "three games" scale

    Is it too early to say he's a mortal lock? YES

    Is it too early to get excited about the possibilities based on what we have seen through three games, for which he recieves high marks if he's being judged on the right scale? NO

    IMO there are plenty of good reasons to be excited .. but I could be wrong, I don't have a monopoly on being right
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 11-19-2007 at 12:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Look no further then the running game and the oline to see he has made a difference..

    His downfield abilitly is starting to open things up a bit for the rest of the O.. And it will only get better.

    I am very happy thus far.

  3. #3
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    Excellent post, Ham.

    Clemens performance as QB should be judged in due course. Not to mention about yesterday's game--- and to use a rather old argument about a recent Jets QB that shall remain nameless--but didn't Clemens beat a top 5 NFL defense yesterday?

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    He made his third start of his career and in those three starts he's moved the team down the field late in the game to either tie it or win it. If our receivers could catch the goddamn ball he'd have two 4th quarter comebacks (Baltimore and yesterday) and an overtime win.

  5. #5
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    yea kellen has improved our team a ton so far like alot of people said if chad was playing i dont think we would have won that game

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    Right on ham Thats what ive been thinking all along as well. My steeler friends who were with me during the game, Looked over and said the jets finally got themselves ,a qb have fun with this kellen kid

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    Great thread, great post Ham, and LockeJet, you nailed it too.

    It may take a couple of weeks, but the offense is slowly graduating into more of a dynamic open field attack.

    Clearly evident right away is how fast and hard Clemens throws the out route, there were at least 3 plays that Pittsburgh DB's, and that includes the likes of Polamalu, who, if you paid close attention, after Clemens ripped a ball to a receiver making his cut, and the ball traveled either in front of him, over him, or behind him, passes that had they not been delivered witht he velocity and the anticipation Clemens had on those plays, could have been INC's or even a turnover. I heard Polamalu shout "god damnit" at least once on those plays.

    Slowly, you are seeing the improvement of the offensive attack, the gameplanning is changing, give it a few more weeks, and we will see more of what the offense could be like under Clemens, get us another speedy receiver, and it will open up more.

    Baker has also suddenly gotten into the mix, becuase as Clemens starts to hit the out routes and the sideline patterns by the WR's, the middle of the field is opening up.

  8. #8
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    Dead on Ham. If your watching this kid play and not enjoying the "process", then you should adjust your perspective.

    And, as we saw yesterday, the better he gets, the better everyone else gets..

    A short few games back, I never thought I'd be giggling like a kid at that Bomb to Coles on the games second play yesterday.

    In a way, this kids debut has saved the season for me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sourceworx View Post
    He made his third start of his career and in those three starts he's moved the team down the field late in the game to either tie it or win it. If our receivers could catch the goddamn ball he'd have two 4th quarter comebacks (Baltimore and yesterday) and an overtime win.
    and if cotch makes the catch vs washington and it's a 3rd win.

    Thanks for the post Ham.. again, it's right on.

    There are a select few here that for some reason or another (chad love?) are judging Clemens on a totally unrealistic scale right now. Fact is, he's going to go through some growing pains, going to make some bad reads, going to makes some bad throws- but the bottom line is this - This guy's a football player.

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    Glenn Foley looked good his first few games.

    So did Chad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agentmorris View Post
    and to use a rather old argument about a recent Jets QB that shall remain nameless--but didn't Clemens beat a top 5 NFL defense yesterday?
    The #1 ranked defense to be exact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Vick View Post
    Glenn Foley looked good his first few games.

    So did Chad.
    So did Roger Vick.

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    We all can judge Kellen with our own eyes. What I see is average qb play. What I see is 3 tds and 5 ints. What I see if 50% completion percentage.

    I also see him getting us in position to win games. We are doing better at this then we were earlier in the year.


    Kellen needs to step it up on Thursday. He needs to be more accurate and score more points. We are going to need it against the Cowboys.

  14. #14
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    1. Cutler
    2. Clemens
    3. Young
    4. Leinart

    Just accept it

  15. #15
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    I for one can't wait to see Clemens against a weak defense. Each time he's played he's faced a top 5'ish defense against the pass. That's a crazy start to your first 5 games..

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    Quote Originally Posted by RutgersJetFan View Post
    1. Cutler
    2. Clemens
    3. Young
    4. Leinart

    Just accept it
    Young has 4 Tds and 10 picks this year They are winning so nobody talks about it but he stinks right now. Tennesee is running the rock and playing great D. They obvioulsy dont win because of VY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuler82 View Post

    and if cotch makes the catch vs washington and it's a 3rd win
    EXACTLY RIGHT

    This kid could easily be 3-0 in his first three starts if his recievers made the catches "professional recievers" should be expected to make .. they didn't and he isn't, but that aside this kid has has shown a great deal of promise in my view .. he has the tools to make every throw in the book, he's tough {mentally and physically}, bad plays don't get him down and neither does a physical pounding, and he's shown some real flashes of brilliance without the best personnel, without his #1 WR for most of two games, and those flashes are a genuine reason to be excited about this kids future

    Having seen what I've seen through three games, would I draft a QB if the draft was tomorrow?

    NOT A CHANCE

  18. #18
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    I think the disconnect is clear.

    If anyone watched this game, and had no idea whether Clemens was experienced / a rookie / whatever, I don't think anyone would say "he had an awesome game!" I remember thinking after multiple plays during the game "Hmmm, well, I hope this is something he can improve on."

    The bottom line is that we won the game (isn't that what we used to say about Chad last year?), a game that no one thought we had any business winning, and there are a lot of positive things from Clemens that we see that we think he can build on.

    If you just focus on his individual performance, I think it's much more of an "optimism" / "potential" thing, with a little bit of "he actually helped us win the game, against the #1 defense" thrown in.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post

    Great thread, great post Ham ...
    Thank You, Ray

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath View Post

    We all can judge Kellen with our own eyes. What I see is average qb play. What I see is 3 tds and 5 ints. What I see if 50% completion percentage.

    I also see him getting us in position to win games. We are doing better at this then we were earlier in the year.


    Kellen needs to step it up on Thursday. He needs to be more accurate and score more points. We are going to need it against the Cowboys.
    In other words he needs to start peaking in his forth NFL start, and if that's what you're hoping for I'm afraid you are going to be bitterly disappointed, JWN .. barring the abberation it just doesn't work that way with neophyte QB's

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