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Thread: Why the fall from Grace and how to end it?

  1. #1

    Why the fall from Grace and how to end it?

    It's time for Woody to sell the team or act llike he actually gives a damn about the team. Letting Mikey T run this franchise in to the groumd must stop. The We're the Jets go screw yourself" mentality of the front office has to go. It's time a talent evaluator other then Bradway or Tannenbaum make football decisions that will help the team.The front office has to stop patting themseves on the back on how smart or tough they are on player's contract negotiations. It's hard to believe but it's 10 years ago that Parcells walked in to Ewbank hall and gave us the fans some hope that the team would get better.For the most part it did we got to 1 AFC championship game and made the playoffs several times in the last 10 years.Looking at this team now we are back when Kotite was at the helm.I am not condeming Mangini yet but you have to ask yourself what happened to make us possibly the worst team in the NFL. Start with a front office that neglected the OL for too many years and did not spend any money on it. Start with a moribund offense that has 0 I repeat 0 playmakers on it. There is no one (except Washington on specials) who scares a defense. Unless changes are made up at the front we will continue this downward spiral to football oblivion.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI JET FAN View Post
    It's time for Woody to sell the team or act llike he actually gives a damn about the team. Letting Mikey T run this franchise in to the groumd must stop. The We're the Jets go screw yourself" mentality of the front office has to go. It's time a talent evaluator other then Bradway or Tannenbaum make football decisions that will help the team.The front office has to stop patting themseves on the back on how smart or tough they are on player's contract negotiations. It's hard to believe but it's 10 years ago that Parcells walked in to Ewbank hall and gave us the fans some hope that the team would get better.For the most part it did we got to 1 AFC championship game and made the playoffs several times in the last 10 years.Looking at this team now we are back when Kotite was at the helm.I am not condeming Mangini yet but you have to ask yourself what happened to make us possibly the worst team in the NFL. Start with a front office that neglected the OL for too many years and did not spend any money on it. Start with a moribund offense that has 0 I repeat 0 playmakers on it. There is no one (except Washington on specials) who scares a defense. Unless changes are made up at the front we will continue this downward spiral to football oblivion.
    Face it, we are a lousy franchise, we have been a lousy franchise, and there is a good chance we will continue to be. Why? We have always had lousy ownership. I don't see that changing.

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    This stuff is riddiculous. If there was no salary cap I would agree with you but fact of the matter is that Herm ruined this team with the high priced contracts that he paid to aging players past their prime like Wanye Chrebet that put us in a terrible cap position the last two offseason.

    Saying that Mike T does not know how to evaluate talent because he didn't sign an O lineman is ignorant. The guy brought in Marco Columbo, Stacey Andrews, John Ruyon and how many others during the past 2 offseasons. We simply didn' have the money to sign them given the terrible shape that he and Mangini inherited the team.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by woodside View Post
    This stuff is riddiculous. If there was no salary cap I would agree with you but fact of the matter is that Herm ruined this team with the high priced contracts that he paid to aging players past their prime like Wanye Chrebet that put us in a terrible cap position the last two offseason.

    Saying that Mike T does not know how to evaluate talent because he didn't sign an O lineman is ignorant. The guy brought in Marco Columbo, Stacey Andrews, John Ruyon and how many others during the past 2 offseasons. We simply didn' have the money to sign them given the terrible shape that he and Mangini inherited the team.
    The Jets cap Guru who also is their GM has the Jets cap in great shape. Tannenbaum chose not to spend the money on the OG position because he felt the players demands were too high. How did he feel yesterday watching his OL get manhandled.; This disaster of a season is on Tannnenbaum. It's time to put the heat on this guy!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodside View Post
    This stuff is riddiculous. If there was no salary cap I would agree with you but fact of the matter is that Herm ruined this team with the high priced contracts that he paid to aging players past their prime like Wanye Chrebet that put us in a terrible cap position the last two offseason.

    Saying that Mike T does not know how to evaluate talent because he didn't sign an O lineman is ignorant. The guy brought in Marco Columbo, Stacey Andrews, John Ruyon and how many others during the past 2 offseasons. We simply didn' have the money to sign them given the terrible shape that he and Mangini inherited the team.
    Please... your missing the obvious... if we played in New York, none of this would ever have happened.

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    Our coach and GM combination is young, they have made some very good moves and some big mistakes. The sin for a young group is not in making the mistakes the sin is repeating the mistakes. We shall see this off season what the Jets do. If they make the mistake of not shoring up positions they thought they could get by with then they deserve all the abuse they will get. It's natural to think you are better than you are after making the playoffs last year. When the Jets committed to the Mangini/Tannenbaum group they needed to have some legit patience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LI JET FAN View Post
    The Jets cap Guru who also is their GM has the Jets cap in great shape. Tannenbaum chose not to spend the money on the OG position because he felt the players demands were too high. How did he feel yesterday watching his OL get manhandled.; This disaster of a season is on Tannnenbaum. It's time to put the heat on this guy!
    Maybe, just maybe, Tannenbaum & Mangini realize that we are not a Guard away from the Superbowl.

  8. #8
    when tangini took the reins last year, i thought it would be a 5 year plan before we would be great, and at least 3 until we were competitive. just because they stunned everyone and lucked into 10 wins and a playoff spot, people think we still shouldn't have to wait. they did so well last year that it created an unattainable set of expectations. we do not have the level of talent that we need currently. you have to give these guys another draft before you kill them. granted there have been mistakes, like schlegel, but in two drafts we have 5 potential probowlers: dbrick, mangold, revis, harris, and washington. can't see how you can say they can't evaluate talent. hard not to be disappointed, but c'mon - did anyone think we were going to the superbowl this year?

  9. #9
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    wah wah

    wake up - the team and woody owe us, the fans nothing.

    there is no recipe for championship. if Clemens isn't Tom Brady it's not necessarily Woody's fault.

    in the NFL superstars are what win games, and rings - right now the Jets have no legitimate HOF caliber stars.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Our coach and GM combination is young, they have made some very good moves and some big mistakes. The sin for a young group is not in making the mistakes the sin is repeating the mistakes. We shall see this off season what the Jets do. If they make the mistake of not shoring up positions they thought they could get by with then they deserve all the abuse they will get. It's natural to think you are better than you are after making the playoffs last year. When the Jets committed to the Mangini/Tannenbaum group they needed to have some legit patience.
    Great post.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    wah wah

    wake up - the team and woody owe us, the fans nothing.

    there is no recipe for championship. if Clemens isn't Tom Brady it's not necessarily Woody's fault.

    in the NFL superstars are what win games, and rings - right now the Jets have no legitimate HOF caliber stars.

    Funny, I can always depend on you to bring some sense into what otherwise is a depressing thread.

  12. #12
    When Mangini arrived the cupboard was bare of talent. The entire OL (all 5 positions) needed to be replaced. The starting QB was injury prone and didn't scare anyone. His top returning RB never played another down. So we needed a lot of guys. And our salary cap was in bad shape.

    But some of the problems were of Mangini's own making. Mangini's scheme poorly fit the best defensive players on this team (Vilma, DRob). So he also managed to marginalize what little talent he inherited.

    But if there's one thing Tannenbaum & Mangini have done well, it's the draft. We've selected 5 starters (DBrick, Mangold, Clemens, Revis, Harris) and 4 good backups (Eric Smith, Leon Washington, Brad Smith, Drew Coleman) in the last 2 years. Plus some developmental guys that might pan out (DeVito, Bender, Stuckey, Kowalewski). So that's a pretty good haul.

  13. #13
    Even with the good drafts, however, this team still has a lot of holes. RT, LG, RG, NT, DE, OLB, CB, WR could all use upgrades.

    I'm hoping for another 10 pick draft. Start by moving down in the first round to gain another 1st or 2nd. Add trades for Vilma, JMac, Pennington and others for 2 / 3 / 4th round picks in 2008 or 2009. Then use this bounty to build up the trenches. Take OL, DL, OLB. Finally mix in a couple of veteran FA for leadership. The team can't all be rookies.

    This off season is going to be the crucial one for Tannenbaum / Mangini. If they do it right, it could set the team up well for the next several years. If they do it wrong I'd be surprised if either of them would be with the Jets for much longer.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    When Mangini arrived the cupboard was bare of talent. The entire OL (all 5 positions) needed to be replaced. The starting QB was injury prone and didn't scare anyone. His top returning RB never played another down. So we needed a lot of guys. And our salary cap was in bad shape.

    But some of the problems were of Mangini's own making. Mangini's scheme poorly fit the best defensive players on this team (Vilma, DRob). So he also managed to marginalize what little talent he inherited.

    But if there's one thing Tannenbaum & Mangini have done well, it's the draft. We've selected 5 starters (DBrick, Mangold, Clemens, Revis, Harris) and 4 good backups (Eric Smith, Leon Washington, Brad Smith, Drew Coleman) in the last 2 years. Plus some developmental guys that might pan out (DeVito, Bender, Stuckey, Kowalewski). So that's a pretty good haul.
    Nice post Lagerman

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    Even with the good drafts, however, this team still has a lot of holes. RT, LG, RG, NT, DE, OLB, CB, WR could all use upgrades.

    I'm hoping for another 10 pick draft. Start by moving down in the first round to gain another 1st or 2nd. Add trades for Vilma, JMac, Pennington and others for 2 / 3 / 4th round picks in 2008 or 2009. Then use this bounty to build up the trenches. Take OL, DL, OLB. Finally mix in a couple of veteran FA for leadership. The team can't all be rookies.

    This off season is going to be the crucial one for Tannenbaum / Mangini. If they do it right, it could set the team up well for the next several years. If they do it wrong I'd be surprised if either of them would be with the Jets for much longer.
    Nice read.

    Do you think the GM can trade Vilma, JMac and Chad in one off season? (Maybe DROB?)

    Just seems highly unlikely that they would trade all of these players in a league where there is not too many trades........

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI JET FAN View Post
    The Jets cap Guru who also is their GM has the Jets cap in great shape. Tannenbaum chose not to spend the money on the OG position because he felt the players demands were too high. How did he feel yesterday watching his OL get manhandled.; This disaster of a season is on Tannnenbaum. It's time to put the heat on this guy!

    The time to bust the bank bringing in FAs is when the nucleus of the team is set...we ain't there yet. Anyone that thought that MikeT and Mangini were going to build this team into a SB contender in 2 years was being very unrealistic.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    When Mangini arrived the cupboard was bare of talent. The entire OL (all 5 positions) needed to be replaced. The starting QB was injury prone and didn't scare anyone. His top returning RB never played another down. So we needed a lot of guys. And our salary cap was in bad shape.

    But some of the problems were of Mangini's own making. Mangini's scheme poorly fit the best defensive players on this team (Vilma, DRob). So he also managed to marginalize what little talent he inherited.

    But if there's one thing Tannenbaum & Mangini have done well, it's the draft. We've selected 5 starters (DBrick, Mangold, Clemens, Revis, Harris) and 4 good backups (Eric Smith, Leon Washington, Brad Smith, Drew Coleman) in the last 2 years. Plus some developmental guys that might pan out (DeVito, Bender, Stuckey, Kowalewski). So that's a pretty good haul.
    While it is clear that Vilma can't play the 3-4 and I actually agreex with Tx on this one and have been advocating treading him since last year. I disagree on Drob though. He was considered DBust before Mangini got here and been believe or not much better under him than anyone else, though it is frustrating that his perfromance comes in bursts such as the last two games. Kerry Rhodes is another player who blossomed under Mangini. In my book, that makes 1 player who doesn't fit the system. The other players suck because they suck not because they can't play the 3-4 and mangini being to rigid.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Nice read.

    Do you think the GM can trade Vilma, JMac and Chad in one off season? (Maybe DROB?)

    Just seems highly unlikely that they would trade all of these players in a league where there is not too many trades........
    No, I don't think we could trade all of them. Then again I didn't think we'd ever get a 1st for an injury-prone Abe or a 4th for a malcontent like Kendall. So who knows ??

    I think DRob and Penny would be the hardest to move since they make too much money. Penny we probably will have to just cut before his roster bonus is due. And we're also likely stuck with DRob for better or worse. But if the DC can scheme him like they've done the last two games (where he's had several sacks), I won't complain.

    Vilma I think is a possibility. People around the league know he can play. And he's on the last year of his rookie deal so it's not too expensive to "try him out" for a season to make sure he's recovered from his injury before giving him a big contract. Look for us to do a deal with KC / Herm for him.

    I think Coles would be another player who could be moved. Given his age I don't think he's part of the long term plan for the Jets. But he's a solid receiver and many teams would love to have him. It would be the case of trading Coles a year early rather than a year late. I think these knicks & dings he's had lately will only become more frequent.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lageman4ever View Post
    Even with the good drafts, however, this team still has a lot of holes. RT, LG, RG, NT, DE, OLB, CB, WR could all use upgrades.

    I'm hoping for another 10 pick draft. Start by moving down in the first round to gain another 1st or 2nd. Add trades for Vilma, JMac, Pennington and others for 2 / 3 / 4th round picks in 2008 or 2009. Then use this bounty to build up the trenches. Take OL, DL, OLB. Finally mix in a couple of veteran FA for leadership. The team can't all be rookies.

    This off season is going to be the crucial one for Tannenbaum / Mangini. If they do it right, it could set the team up well for the next several years. If they do it wrong I'd be surprised if either of them would be with the Jets for much longer.

    EXCELLENT THOUGHTS ON ADDING SOME VETS...look at ne, dal and pitt, they have a lot of experience on their o lines and thts why brady doesn't get touched, same for ind...we need some veterans thrown in there and these guys have to mesh..new england's line has been together for at least 5 years..we are not even in 2 seasons yet..

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by oh well okay View Post
    when tangini took the reins last year, i thought it would be a 5 year plan before we would be great, and at least 3 until we were competitive. just because they stunned everyone and lucked into 10 wins and a playoff spot, people think we still shouldn't have to wait. they did so well last year that it created an unattainable set of expectations. we do not have the level of talent that we need currently. you have to give these guys another draft before you kill them. granted there have been mistakes, like schlegel, but in two drafts we have 5 potential probowlers: dbrick, mangold, revis, harris, and washington. can't see how you can say they can't evaluate talent. hard not to be disappointed, but c'mon - did anyone think we were going to the superbowl this year?
    BRICK is far frrom a PRO BOWL. He should be moved to OG . He is going to get a JETS QB maimed. He is NOT a great pass blocker nor can he run block! Nick is OK but causes LITTLE push in the run game in the center of the field. He is better at pass blocking. Did you think that we 'd be going into the TOILET BOWL this year or what?

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