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Thread: IF we draft Chris Long?

  1. #1
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    IF we draft Chris Long?

    What is our defense going to look like?

    Is it....Ellis - Drob/Pouha - Long/Coleman?

    If we draft Long, does he split time with Coleman? Do we use him as an edge rusher? Is it wise to have a back up in Coleman making that much coin?

    Do you realize how much money we would have invested in our D-Line?

    Kerry maybe you could figure that one out.

    Seems like that would be a very costly pick and we would have a ton of money invested in to a unit that has been underperforming for the amount of money they make.

    I am no cap expert, but doesnt that really hurt a team finacially to have that much stock in one unit?

    I guess my question is, what kind of impact does drafting Chris Long have on the make up of our defense and the money that we need to spend to get the right personel on this team?

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    I don't think he would split time with either Coleman or Ellis. I think he would play an OLB position and take over Bryan Thomas's position. When do we see BT go out and play coverage on the TE or slot receivers? Not really all that much. Long could play his position alot better than BT, he is more athletic so he definitely could keep up with a TE. But he would be the rush LB.

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    Unless we pick up an OLB in FA, Bryan Thomas is actually our better OLB. I would think we'd use him from the right side (Hobson) if anything.

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    So you guys see him playing OLB?

    Do you draft a OLB that high?

    Or is he an excpetion because he can play on the end as well?

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    No, I actually prefer him at RDE. There are questions if he's heavy enough to play it in the 3-4, though, which suggest he might be more of a hybrid.

    My hope is that he does end up 285+ at the combine and then all those questions go away.

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    I wouldnt worry about his weight. I like him where he is. I really think that Mangini will use him at both OLB and at end. Mangini likes versatile players that can play multiple positions and Long can be good at both. His weight in my opinion is not a factor..the kid is a football player and will make plays in the NFL if he is there when we pick that should be our guy.

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    people are forgetting how old Ellis is... was watching the clip where Mo Lewis almost killed Drew Bledsoe, and there's Ellis running behind the play. That was friggin 7 years ago.

    It's possible they draft Long to be a stand up pass rusher early and a full time 3-4 DE down the road, if he loses a step.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    people are forgetting how old Ellis is... was watching the clip where Mo Lewis almost killed Drew Bledsoe, and there's Ellis running behind the play. That was friggin 7 years ago.

    It's possible they draft Long to be a stand up pass rusher early and a full time 3-4 DE down the road, if he loses a step.
    The thing with Ellis is he's the one commonality between all the defenses we've had, whether we were in the 4-3 or 3-4. He is getting old, he's never been consistent...he's basically the Pennington of our defense. He's not the cornerstone of our D and I wouldn't be surprised if he lost a lot of snaps to a guy like Chris Long next season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    people are forgetting how old Ellis is... was watching the clip where Mo Lewis almost killed Drew Bledsoe, and there's Ellis running behind the play. That was friggin 7 years ago.

    It's possible they draft Long to be a stand up pass rusher early and a full time 3-4 DE down the road, if he loses a step.
    Bravo! This is what I was going to write. I would add that we could trade Ellis next year after Long has a year of playing time unless Mangini pulls the trigger and trades him now which I think is highly unlikely.

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    If we draft Chris Long I will be tired of reading threads about how we have 4-3 personal trying to play in a 3-4.

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    Thanks for the input.

    I was thinking the same thing Bit. Ellis is getting old and he would be a nice predocessor.

    What is the comparison here to Adam Carriker of last season's draft? Are they similar players in the sense of what they can do?

    I know Carriker wasnt a top 3 prospect, but it seems that they have very similar playing styles. Isnt Carriker a bigger guys?

    For the 13th pick in the draft, Carriker might be the biggest dissappoinment of all.

    20 tackles on the season

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    Ellis will be 31 come next season. Not ancient, but his best years are behind him for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JiF View Post
    Thanks for the input.

    I was thinking the same thing Bit. Ellis is getting old and he would be a nice predocessor.

    What is the comparison here to Adam Carriker of last season's draft? Are they similar players in the sense of what they can do?

    I know Carriker wasnt a top 3 prospect, but it seems that they have very similar playing styles. Isnt Carriker a bigger guys?

    For the 13th pick in the draft, Carriker might be the biggest dissappoinment of all.

    20 tackles on the season

    u asked alot of question here, i will try to address them all

    considering Carriker played NT on a terrible defense, i think it's too early to call him a disspointment. Once Orlando Pace and Stephen Jackson got injured, that STL team basically went in the toilet bowl. Bulger got hurt, they couldn't score points and the defense got overworked, fast.

    also to compare him to Long, there are some similarities (both received alot of double teams) but it's not really a sound comparison.

    Carriker was known as a gap plugger who rarely made sacks or other impact plays. He was capable of doing such things but didn't really do them at Nebraska. the player is a gap plugger with some playmaking and that's why he didn't go top 10 (like Ngata). He's a serious workout guy who will hold his ground but the plays are going to be made by others.

    on the other hand Chris Long is known as a pass rusher, among the best in the nation both in total sacks and sacks per game. He might play 3-4 DE at virginia but he doesn't clog gaps, he attacks the backfield, even despite doubles and triples. Looking at drafts over the years if you are a top 10 defensive lineman it means you have potential to rush the passer (guys like Peppers, Williams, Okoye, even Drob were not drafted that high to stop the run)

    Like Carriker he can play in multiple systems but he brings disruption not just stoutness to these systems. In the 4-3 Long is a DE but Carriker is a DT. similarly in the 3-4 Long could stand up OLB or DE, Carriker is only a DE. Long is a more versatile player overall, and of course there is the matter of his pedigree.

    seems to me people on the boards are underrating how much it means to an NFL GM to have the pops of a prospect in the Hall of Fame. It's like breeding race horses, all things being equal you want the spawn of Secretariat over some unknown lineage. And while it is far from a guaruntee (that is to say it will not make a bad player good such as the case of Phil Simms or Anthony Munoz kids), among elite prospects (Payton Manning, Kellen Winslow Jr for example) it is a serious boon. Carriker doesn't have that bloodline.

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    carriker is a lunch-pail hard-hat guy. long is a potential star.

    the major dif imo is

    a) size - carriker is bigger and ploddier. Long is shorter and lighter (even at the highest possible weight i think)
    b) agility - long is more tersely composed, and more nimble because of that. i think long can basically bend the edge whereas carriker is more a pure plugger
    C) motor - this is where long separates from everyone. now carriker didn't take plays off, but long's "on" is just using a different technology.

    carriker was never spoken of here or anywhere as a potential OLB. Long is at least being talked about in that capacity.

    Long is the better prospect. And I was huge on AC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    u asked alot of question here, i will try to address them all

    considering Carriker played NT on a terrible defense, i think it's too early to call him a disspointment. Once Orlando Pace and Stephen Jackson got injured, that STL team basically went in the toilet bowl. Bulger got hurt, they couldn't score points and the defense got overworked, fast.

    also to compare him to Long, there are some similarities (both received alot of double teams) but it's not really a sound comparison.

    Carriker was known as a gap plugger who rarely made sacks or other impact plays. He was capable of doing such things but didn't really do them at Nebraska. the player is a gap plugger with some playmaking and that's why he didn't go top 10 (like Ngata). He's a serious workout guy who will hold his ground but the plays are going to be made by others.

    on the other hand Chris Long is known as a pass rusher, among the best in the nation both in total sacks and sacks per game. He might play 3-4 DE at virginia but he doesn't clog gaps, he attacks the backfield, even despite doubles and triples. Looking at drafts over the years if you are a top 10 defensive lineman it means you have potential to rush the passer (guys like Peppers, Williams, Okoye, even Drob were not drafted that high to stop the run)

    Like Carriker he can play in multiple systems but he brings disruption not just stoutness to these systems. In the 4-3 Long is a DE but Carriker is a DT. similarly in the 3-4 Long could stand up OLB or DE, Carriker is only a DE. Long is a more versatile player overall, and of course there is the matter of his pedigree.

    seems to me people on the boards are underrating how much it means to an NFL GM to have the pops of a prospect in the Hall of Fame. It's like breeding race horses, all things being equal you want the spawn of Secretariat over some unknown lineage. And while it is far from a guaruntee (that is to say it will not make a bad player good such as the case of Phil Simms or Anthony Munoz kids), among elite prospects (Payton Manning, Kellen Winslow Jr for example) it is a serious boon. Carriker doesn't have that bloodline.
    Thanks Bit, that was very detailed and I think you did answer most of my questions.

    I didnt realize tha Carriker was spending that much time at DT. Seems a bit to tall. I couldnt imagine him creating the leverage that is needed as well.

    I do agree with you in pedigree. Howie must have rubbed off on him in positive manner.

    You posted this earlier and I didnt ask you to elaborate...do you mind?

    It's possible they draft Long to be a stand up pass rusher early and a full time 3-4 DE down the road, if he loses a step

    thanks

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    i think he means we would draft him in the merriman/mcghinest role, to shoot his body at the QB and to run blitz, but also playing a smattering of DE.

    As he ages and gets bigger he may become an ideal 34 DE.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiF View Post
    Thanks for the input.

    I was thinking the same thing Bit. Ellis is getting old and he would be a nice predocessor.

    What is the comparison here to Adam Carriker of last season's draft? Are they similar players in the sense of what they can do?

    I know Carriker wasnt a top 3 prospect, but it seems that they have very similar playing styles. Isnt Carriker a bigger guys?

    For the 13th pick in the draft, Carriker might be the biggest dissappoinment of all.

    20 tackles on the season

    Carriker was a DE that the Rams stuck in at NT. From what I have heard, they are going to put him back at DE. If that's true then they might go for Dorsey in the draft if they don't go for Jake Long, another big hole for them.

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    I've tinkered with the idea of Long at OLB but I really think his best position is 3-4 DE. He plays great with his hand in the dirt and even though he's only about 285-290, he can two-gap with the best of them.

    He's successfully added wait to his frame over the past few years. I see no reason as to why he can't add an additional 10-15 pounds down the road.

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. I think we pretty much have the same feeling toward him.

    I guess my next concern that hasnt been addressed is committing that much money to our Dline.

    What do you guys think about that aspect of the (possible) pick?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiF View Post
    I guess my next concern that hasnt been addressed is committing that much money to our Dline.

    What do you guys think about that aspect of the (possible) pick?
    it's an issue. looking at the units DL has alot of cash to be sure. however overall the JEts will be in excellent cap shape and will have the cash to spend anywhere they want. Drob will be extended or let go after 08. Ellis is getting up there. K Coleman is decent but not crazy money.

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