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Thread: Draft position and OL contribution to the team

  1. #1

    Draft position and OL contribution to the team

    This thread was motivated by a question LongIslandLeprechaun had in the McFadden Thread. I moved the response here since I thought it was an interesting topic in it's own right.

    LIL asked if any 3rd or 4th round Guards contributed to their teams in 2007. I thought it was a good question since it has relevance to how we may draft OL this year. So I did a quick review of the players drafted and the number of games they played.

    Draft data was from CNNSI. Player starts was from NFL.com. It's not an exhaustive exploration but it provides a pretty good rule of thumb about when and if you should expect OL to contribute to your team.
    Last edited by lageman4ever; 01-27-2008 at 07:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Guards from 2007

    First rounder

    Ben Grubbs (12 starts)


    Second rounders

    Justin Blalock (14 starts)

    Arron Sears (16 starts)


    All three were all mentioned on all-rookie teams from several sources.



    Third rounders

    Marshall Yanda played in 16 games for the Ravens and started 12. He was both a G and RT for Baltimore.

    Andy Alleman, small college G, took a red shirt year with the Saints and did not play in a game.



    Forth rounders

    Mansfield Wrotto took a red shirt year

    Josh Beekman played in 1 game for the Bears

    Manny Rameriz played in 1 game for the Lions

    Allen Barbre played in only 7 games but started in the playoffs for the Packers as an injury replacement.

  3. #3
    Guards From 2006


    GAMES PLAYED ARE FOR THE 2007 SEASON


    First round pick

    Davin Joseph started 16 games for the Bucs.


    Second rounder

    Lutui started 15 of 15 games played.


    Third rounder

    Jason Spitz started 12 of 14 games for the Packers.



    Fourth rounders

    Rob Sims started 16 games for the Seahawks

    Willie Colon 16 games for the Steelers,

    Jahri Evans 16 games for the Saints

    Jean-Gilles played in only 4 games



    Fifth rounder

    Chris Kuper played in 16 games, starting 11.



    6th and 7th rounders generally did not play in 2007 or

    were not on the team anymore (though my search was less than exhaustive)

  4. #4
    Starts aren't the perfect statistic (Clarke started most of the games this season for the Jets) but it's a pretty good measure.


    So I think one can conclude that G's can contribute right away if taken in the first 2 rounds. In rounds 3 and 4 you generally get small school guys and other players that need a year to develop. But they become your starting OL the following year. I you are drafted after the 6th round, it either takes another year or you never make it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nycdan View Post
    Does this includes Tackles who were moved inside to Guard?
    I took the names from CNNSI list of Guards from the 2006 and 2007 drafts. Sears was listed both ways in other draft previews so I included him as well. And it's not always clear where guys end up actually playing - either G or T. Yanda played both last season for the Ravens. But I think it provides a pretty good insight into how OL are drafted and when one should expect them to contribute to the team (if at all).


    For instance, just like the guards, two mid-round tackles drafted by Dallas in 2006 - James Marten (3rd) and Doug Free (4th) - didn't play at all last year. However Flozell Adams is a Free Agent and Colombo is always hurt. So it's likely that Marten or Free (or both) will be starting next season.



    So the criteria for OL seems to be:


    1) first and second rounders start right away

    2) third, forth and fifth rounders don't play the 1st year but play (and often start) the next

    3) sixth and seventh round guys don't generally play their first year. Second year they become a backup, need another red shirt year or are just cut.



    Of course there will always be exceptions. But that seems to be the general trend.



    NOTE: point number 3 doesn't bode well for our own 6th rounder Jacob Bender !
    Last edited by lageman4ever; 01-28-2008 at 11:22 AM.

  6. #6
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    Nice work.

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    Good research. I looked at 2006 draft myself a while back which was why I knew I was correct re how very few rookies become immediate impact offensive linemen. They usually are thrown in only because a team is absolutely desperate due to injuries to their first (see Colts and Falcons), and even second player (see Ravens). Yanda would not have started at all if the Ravens could have done otherwise. Also, the Gil Brandt rookie honors were somewhat of a farce when it came to the offensive line. There were so few guys to choose from that virtually all of them were mentioned. It was like Lewis Carroll's Dodo Award... everybody has run the race and everybody will win a prize...

    My concern is that the Jets cannot really be competitive in 2008 without veteran help on the offensive line or the concession of a first round pick for the same. I would wager a fair amount that the Jets will be very active in FA seeking OL beef. Then watch them target an elite DE/OLB in the draft with the first pick.

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    Thanks for that Research Lageman.

    Its pretty telling. Early round Gaurds can make an immediate impact.

    How many of those guys were Tackle transfers if any?

  9. #9
    For a little Jet history, here are some OL taken in rounds 2-4 in past drafts!

    Gaurds round 2 Tackles

    Randy Thomas 99 John Mooring 71
    Matt O'Dwyer 95 Robert Woods 73
    Gordon Browne 74
    Reggie McElroy 82
    Doug Williams 86


    Round 3

    David Loverne 99 Sam Walton 68
    Siupele Malamala 92
    Kareem McKenzie 01

    Round 4

    Eric Cunningham 79 Ezelle Jones 69
    David Ware 93
    Melvin Hayes 95
    Jason Fabini 98
    Adrian Jones 04

    Some I don't remember, but some I wish we still had!
    I hope this may add a little to this thread, because this is a good thread!


    Shoot! I originally had the gaurds and tackles in two columns but when I posted they somehow merged....oh well!

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    Well, the Jets history of drafting tackles in the 1st Round has not exactly been stellar with one notable exception - and it's not Ferguson (yet).

    2006 1.4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson (incomplete. too early to grade)
    1988 1.8 Dave Cadigan (half of the famed Penalty Pals)
    1986 1.22 Mike Haight (converted to G, nice mustache)
    1978 1.4 Chris Ward (not awful, but certainly disappointing and another frequent flag recipient)
    1977 1.4 Marvin Powell (certainly a justified selection)
    1969 1.26 Dave Foley (traded after 2 years, made a Pro Bowl with Buffalo)

    Now consider the guys the Jets have passed on:

    Anthony Munoz (Lam Jones)
    Willie Roaf (Marvin Jones)
    Harris Barton/Bruce Armstrong (Roger Vick)

    Obviously the list is endless...
    Last edited by JohnnyHector; 01-28-2008 at 04:08 PM.

  11. #11
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    Great stuff by everyone here on the research. Very telling information.

    The thing is, obviously, the Jets need to have some serious hits on their picks. They are in the position they are now because they have not drafted elite players in the first 3 rounds for a very long time. That kills a franchise.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    Great stuff by everyone here on the research. Very telling information.

    The thing is, obviously, the Jets need to have some serious hits on their picks. They are in the position they are now because they have not drafted elite players in the first 3 rounds for a very long time. That kills a franchise.

    I agree with this; however, I think Mangini and Tannenbaum have fared better than most with respect to their first two drafts. I also expect them to have a good draft this year or I will be very dissappointed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JiF View Post
    Thanks for that Research Lageman.

    Its pretty telling. Early round Gaurds can make an immediate impact.

    How many of those guys were Tackle transfers if any?
    Not a single one unfortunately.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    Great stuff by everyone here on the research. Very telling information.

    The thing is, obviously, the Jets need to have some serious hits on their picks. They are in the position they are now because they have not drafted elite players in the first 3 rounds for a very long time. That kills a franchise.

    The team now is dealing with the lack of OL talent drafted from 2000 to 2005.

    We should have had some guys in the OL pipeline getting ready to start by 2006. But there were very few OL selected before then and the ones that were (McKenzie, couple of others) were allowed to leave. So by 2006 the Offensive Line was a complete disaster. We needed to add 2 #1 picks immediately to create a barely average line. That's pathetic.

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    I like this post. Good question and solid research. Clearly the o-line is major factor this offseason. We need to draft guards in the 2nd round and 3rd rounds this year no matter what we do via offseason.

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    the problem is the stats don't tell who is coaching and helping develop these guys....that is the missing link in more ways than one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    the problem is the stats don't tell who is coaching and helping develop these guys....that is the missing link in more ways than one...
    What do you think of the Callahan hiring?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoolJet View Post
    What do you think of the Callahan hiring?
    interesting to say the least....

    I could think of a number of people who would be better fits coaching the o-line, if in fact Callahan enters the season as the O-line coach....I just wonder if it was not intended as insurance against Schottenhiemer leaving in the future...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    interesting to say the least....

    I could think of a number of people who would be better fits coaching the o-line, if in fact Callahan enters the season as the O-line coach....I just wonder if it was not intended as insurance against Schottenhiemer leaving in the future...
    It probably is. Although Schotty needs to redeem himself in 08 for that to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    interesting to say the least....

    I could think of a number of people who would be better fits coaching the o-line, if in fact Callahan enters the season as the O-line coach....I just wonder if it was not intended as insurance against Schottenhiemer leaving in the future...
    i hope callahan institutes some sort of real running plays. this crap where the fullback motions left, then right, then snap, and finally forward to run block doesn't ever work. it's ridiculous.

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