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Thread: if we draft ellis

  1. #1

    if we draft ellis

    would we br drafting him as a NT or a DE b/c he is the same size a Dslob and that wouldnt make sense but i like him at DE in our system....any thoughts

  2. #2
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    Midgets don't play DE.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by irishxmafia View Post
    would we br drafting him as a NT or a DE b/c he is the same size a Dslob and that wouldnt make sense but i like him at DE in our system....any thoughts
    My thoughts are that if we choose any player at the top of the draft only to change his postion we are in trouble. I would much rather chose a "sure-er" thing at the OL positon if we cant trade out of this pick.

    Recent mocks have shown that many OLman will be gone by our second round pick.

    I would much rather chose Clady or by some chance J Long falls to us at six than any other player that is expected to be there when we choose.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    Midgets don't play DE.
    o i forgot they fit so much better at NT

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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    My thoughts are that if we choose any player at the top of the draft only to change his postion we are in trouble.
    +1 you don't pay 10plus million dollars to a guy and don't have a position in mind for him

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishxmafia View Post
    o i forgot they fit so much better at NT
    Actually, they do. You want your Nose Tackle to be short because it allows them to create better leverage and be stout against the Double Team.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    +1 you don't pay 10plus million dollars to a guy and don't have a position in mind for him
    Bitonti, IYHO, what do the Jets do then? I mean the only logical answer with this thinking is we go OLINE considering the choices we have.

    What do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    Midgets don't play DE.
    Why? Other than the ability to knockdown passes why does a 3-4 DE have to be tall. If the guy can control his position, get a pass rush when called for what difference does it make if a guy is 6-1 or 6-4. Eliminating a very good player over 3 inches in height seems strange, is this another one of the leagues biases vs height?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Why? Other than the ability to knockdown passes why does a 3-4 DE have to be tall. If the guy can control his position, get a pass rush when called for what difference does it make if a guy is 6-1 or 6-4. Eliminating a very good player over 3 inches in height seems strange, is this another one of the leagues biases vs height?
    not an expert, but easier to get leverage against tall tackles, if short would be a lot harder?

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    The thing with Sed. is despite the fact he is only 6'1", his wingspan is that more like the players in the draft that were 6'3",6'4",6'5"...

    As well -- he is a complete workout warrior.... This kid will be benching 225 at least 40 times (he did 42 LAST YEAR!!!).

    My prediction is that he goes number 1 to Miami -- the combination of both his strength, his wingspan (so critical, especially considering his height -- this makes his height a strength in terms of leverage, not a weakness -- he could play either DE or NT in the 3-4 at a pro-bowl level) will make him the perfect 3-4 lineman -- I sort of view him as a younger, stronger, faster, casey hampton.

    That being said -- if the Lions decide to trade S. Rogers to the Dolphins instead of us, don't be surprised to see the Jets have a shot at him around 6 (which they would take in a heart beat).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sect313 View Post
    not an expert, but easier to get leverage against tall tackles, if short would be a lot harder?
    exactly. a 6'0" player in the guard tackle gap versus a 6'8" tackle is usually a mismatch in favor of the offense.

    if it's a 6'0" speed rusher in a 4-3 ok that can be an advantage leverage wise, but in a two gap system the outside gap pluggers need size, think Richard Seymour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    Midgets don't play DE.
    and skinny guys under 310 usually don't play NT....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Back to NY View Post
    and skinny guys under 310 usually don't play NT....
    Exactly. I still can't understand how 6' 308 lb (maxed out weight) Sedrick Ellis could be considered by anyone to be a 3-4 NT. People mention his strength, but strength was never an issue with DRob. He lacks the necessary bulk to play the position. Ellis can be the strongest player in the NFL and he still will lack the necessary leverage to play the position because of his size.

    If the Jets want to play Ellis next to DRob in the 4-3 then fine, but Ellis will simply be a stronger, smaller DRob in the 3-4.

    The Jets need to stop drafting players undersized for their NFL position.

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    Ummm... maxed out? They said he was maxed at 285... now he is 20 lb heavier and still looks he could put on another 30...

    Sed has a long frame for his height which means he has room to pack on more beef.... Also sed started working at only at 15 which means he should theoretically still be getting stronger (scary). He is not much different in size than kelly gregg or casey hampton... In fact he looks lke casey hampton before a trip to white castle... I personally think he will become the best NT in football... just for the miami dolphins as I think we will trade for S. Rogers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexgutterson View Post
    Ummm... maxed out? They said he was maxed at 285... now he is 20 lb heavier and still looks he could put on another 30...

    Sed has a long frame for his height which means he has room to pack on more beef.... Also sed started working at only at 15 which means he should theoretically still be getting stronger (scary). He is not much different in size than kelly gregg or casey hampton... In fact he looks lke casey hampton before a trip to white castle... I personally think he will become the best NT in football... just for the miami dolphins as I think we will trade for S. Rogers.
    Sorry, but I have to disagree.

    He can have a "long frame" as you say, but he is still a 6' tall man. This is biology we're talking about here. It defies logic for a 6' man who is 308 lbs to add another 30 pounds after adding 20 and still be athletic enough to play in the NFL.

    Right now, there is concern that Ellis tires out early. With another 30 lbs he likely would be done after a series.

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    Hopefully we don't draft him at all. DROB II in the making

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    LMAO -- first off I never heard he tired out early, and yes maybe 30 more pounds was a little steep, but he is actually a shade under 6'1"- possibly a 5th of an inch under (casey hampton's height), and just 17 pounds less -- do you really think it defies either the laws of biology, physics, or logic, for him to become that size, seeing and all there is already a player in the nfl that size?

    But this aside -- how is it that Kelly Gregg is only 2 lb more than Sedrick Ellis, is far less strong, and slower, yet is considered one of the best NT's in the game?

    Does he have magical powers in which he sprinkles fairy dust on him during games to make him better than his size would indicate? Or maybe he has a dragon that lives inside his shoulder pads that burn offensive linemans faces when the cameras are not looking?

    Why is he not too small to play nt, but sedrick ellis is?

    Especially considering Ellis has longer arms (key for leverage) as well as might be the combine record holder for most bench presses of 225 by the start of the draft...

    I don't mean to come off like a d$#@, but I'm sick of people saying that he is too small to play NT...

    People said Bob Sanders was too small to play safety, they said that ray lewis was an undersized linebacker, they said that Dwight Fweeney was too short to play end....

    This guy has a motor that never stops, he is incredibly fast, and his strength and leverage will win double team match-ups against most anyone.

    He will be the Dolphins pick at the top of the draft -- unless like I mentioned earlier they are the ones that trade for S. Rogers, not ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexgutterson View Post
    Ummm... maxed out? They said he was maxed at 285... now he is 20 lb heavier and still looks he could put on another 30...

    Sed has a long frame for his height which means he has room to pack on more beef.... Also sed started working at only at 15 which means he should theoretically still be getting stronger (scary). He is not much different in size than kelly gregg or casey hampton... In fact he looks lke casey hampton before a trip to white castle... I personally think he will become the best NT in football... just for the miami dolphins as I think we will trade for S. Rogers.
    he hasn't maxed out but he doesn't have much growth potential...as far as a long frame...that's garbage....he looked like a tank at Senior Bowl weigh ins with a barrell chest and big tight gut....

    and there is no comparison between Ellis and Hampton as similar points in their career....Hampton is built lower to the ground and was significantly stouter at the point versus Ellis is is a lot more explosive...

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    But this aside -- how is it that Kelly Gregg is only 2 lb more than Sedrick Ellis, is far less strong, and slower, yet is considered one of the best NT's in the game?

    Does he have magical powers in which he sprinkles fairy dust on him during games to make him better than his size would indicate? Or maybe he has a dragon that lives inside his shoulder pads that burn offensive linemans faces when the cameras are not looking?
    Gregg was also a journey man who was in the league almost a half dozen years and on three teams before getting to the point where he's at....he's a sixth round pick you are trying to compare to the potential sixth pick of the draft....there's no comparison...

    point being- can Ellis eventually develop into a NT??? possibly; once he learns NT techniques and physically matures....but that may never come and you don't select players with the 6th choice of the draft based on a "possibly"....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    Sorry, but I have to disagree.

    He can have a "long frame" as you say, but he is still a 6' tall man. This is biology we're talking about here. It defies logic for a 6' man who is 308 lbs to add another 30 pounds after adding 20 and still be athletic enough to play in the NFL.

    Right now, there is concern that Ellis tires out early. With another 30 lbs he likely would be done after a series.
    Casey Hampton was the same height and weighed 314lbs at the combines, so whats the difference?

    And yes, strength is an issue for Drob.

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