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Thread: Everything is Happening All Wrong for the Jets Right Now

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    Everything is Happening All Wrong for the Jets Right Now

    We're less than 12 days away from the start of free agency and the planets could not be aligning any worse for the Jets right now. While money is the single biggest reason players normally choose to sign where they choose to sign, there are a lot of other things that do factor into the decision. For board fondness and familiarity, lets call them "intangibles."

    What are the Jets intangibles right now? Well lets list them:

    1. We're coming off of a 4-12 season.

    2. Our best and probably our most recognizable player is now the 2nd player in as many years to call our front offices liars. Accuse them of bait & switching on him. Accusing them of telling him one thing, asking him to do what they want, and then never following through on their word.

    3. It has been well publicized that our coach can be a real ball buster and that he is a drill seargent with the way he runs one of the hardest and most unforgiving training camps in all the league.

    4. The team who's name is on the stadium we rent just finished shocking the world and won the Super Bowl becoming America's darling team. Every fan in the country outside of the Boston area and every player in the NFL that isn't a New England Patriot was rooting for the Giants on Super Bowl Sunday. Look at the ovation Osi got at the Pro Bowl. Listen to how he said that players from all over the league told him that they were pulling for the Giants. This just totally reinforces the perception that we are really just "the other NY team."

    5. We are a young team devoid of talent pretty much throughout our roster. Also, teams from around the league don't watch every Jets' game. They don't know that the coaches only deemed 5 of Kellen Clemens' interceptions to be his fault. They don't know that KC was two dropped passes away (one by JMac and one by Cotchery) from being 5-2 as a starter. They don't know that our team dropped 15+ other passes on him during his starts. And while they know our offensive line was amongst the worst in the league, I doubt any of them know the full extent of it. They only know the stats they see on paper. And what do the stats on paper show them? It shows them that we are a rebuilding team coming off of a 4-12 season with very little talent, a dishonest front office, a drill seargent head coach, and a lastly, the lowest rated QB in all the NFL last season.

    6. Lastly, while we're really only involved due to us being the team who caught them red handed, the NFL has a major scandal going on right now involving the Patriots and cheating. The story is picking up more and more steam and is a very negative, black eye for the league as a whole. Everything associated with story is just pure negativity and our teams' name is mentioned in just about every story written about it and our head coach was there and essentially got his chance as a head coach based upon his success there. Just knowing how negative the story is and then reading our team's name in the story every time is not good for positive word association.


    Now, while I already pretty much summed it up all at once in point number 4, what about a team coming off of a 4-12 season, with a dishonest front office, a drill seargent head coach, a talentless roster, the JV team in their own market, and a team with the lowest rated QB in all the NFL is supposed to be intriguing to top-of-the-line, extremely talented free agent veterans who are looking to cash in, but also looking to go somewhere they think they have a legitimate shot at winning and winning a Super Bowl?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMJ View Post
    We're less than 12 days away from the start of free agency and the planets could not be aligning any worse for the Jets right now. While money is the single biggest reason players normally choose to sign where they choose to sign, there are a lot of other things that do factor into the decision. For board fondness and familiarity, lets call them "intangibles."

    What are the Jets intangibles right now? Well lets list them:

    1. We're coming off of a 4-12 season.

    2. Our best and probably our most recognizable player is now the 2nd player in as many years to call our front offices liars. Accuse them of bait & switching on him. Accusing them of telling him one thing, asking him to do what they want, and then never following through on their word.

    3. It has been well publicized that our coach can be a real ball buster and that he is a drill seargent with the way he runs one of the hardest and most unforgiving training camps in all the league.

    4. The team who's name is on the stadium we rent just finished shocking the world and won the Super Bowl becoming America's darling team. Every fan in the country outside of the Boston area and every player in the NFL that isn't a New England Patriot was rooting for the Giants on Super Bowl Sunday. Look at the ovation Osi got at the Pro Bowl. Listen to how he said that players from all over the league told him that they were pulling for the Giants. This just totally reinforces the perception that we are really just "the other NY team."

    5. We are a young team devoid of talent pretty much throughout our roster. Also, teams from around the league don't watch every Jets' game. They don't know that the coaches only deemed 5 of Kellen Clemens' interceptions to be his fault. They don't know that KC was two dropped passes away (one by JMac and one by Cotchery) from being 5-2 as a starter. They don't know that our team dropped 15+ other passes on him during his starts. And while they know our offensive line was amongst the worst in the league, I doubt any of them know the full extent of it. They only know the stats they see on paper. And what do the stats on paper show them? It shows them that we are a rebuilding team coming off of a 4-12 season with very little talent, a dishonest front office, a drill seargent head coach, and a lastly, the lowest rated QB in all the NFL last season.

    6. Lastly, while we're really only involved due to us being the team who caught them red handed, the NFL has a major scandal going on right now involving the Patriots and cheating. The story is picking up more and more steam and is a very negative, black eye for the league as a whole. Everything associated with story is just pure negativity and our teams' name is mentioned in just about every story written about it and our head coach was there and essentially got his chance as a head coach based upon his success there. Just knowing how negative the story is and then reading our team's name in the story every time is not good for positive word association.


    Now, while I already pretty much summed it up all at once in point number 4, what about a team coming off of a 4-12 season, with a dishonest front office, a drill seargent head coach, a talentless roster, the JV team in their own market, and a team with the lowest rated QB in all the NFL is supposed to be intriguing to top-of-the-line, extremely talented free agent veterans who are looking to cash in, but also looking to go somewhere they think they have a legitimate shot at winning and winning a Super Bowl?
    $$$

    Honestly, there's alot more than that, let's say some of the players have a connection to/put a good word in to a potential FA? That alone is the reason I'm starting to seriously believe we're going to sign Samuel this offseason. Not saying I'm happy about that, but our FO really wants to be like the Patriots, literally, so I think Samuel might happen.

    But in the end, it's all about the dollar signs, example Nate Clements jumping to an equally bad or potentially worse team, but also got one of the richest contracts in NFL history.

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    Next season is all on Kellen Clemens. He better be good or else we are doomed for next year. I think if we continue to draft well like we did the last two years we are going to be solid next year regardless who we bring in. But if Clemens plays like he did last year it's not going to matter, he needs to at least give us average play from the QB spot. With a decent O-Line I hope he can do that

    I'm not that upset about us not getting any FA. None of these FA usually make a difference, I mean is getting the Calivn Pace's and Drayton Florence's of the world going to win us a SB, probably not, but they will get paid like guys who do. If a Suggs, Haynesworth, Gross, etc were out they then I would pay them, however paying Calvin Pace like Suggs isn't going to help the situation.

    I'm still looking at 2009 as the year to seriously contend, don't do anything stupid this offseason that will affect our ability to spend next offseason. Extend Rhodes with a big roster bonus this year, take up 10-15 in cap room with that to lower his #'s in future years, leave some cap so we can pay guys like Leon Washington, Brad Smith or Kellen Clemens if they improve so they don't sniff FA.

    I think we'll sign one big guy with the cap room we have, we can afford to pay market value which is probably overpaying for taht player's performance, but that's the cost of doing buisness nowadays. I definetly see us outspending people for Stacy Andrews or Jacob Bell, I can't see this FO paying Faneca for past performance.

    I still believe in Mangini, especially as a talent evaluator, hopefully he coaches like he did more like in 2006 than last year. He lost us a lot of close games last year by benching Pennington way too late, along with playing it too close to the vest on defense and offense.
    Last edited by IM3; 02-17-2008 at 12:38 AM.

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    So whats new?

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    you left out crappy weather and insane real estate prices

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeyman3 View Post
    Next season is all on Kellen Clemens. He better be good or else we are doomed for next year. I think if we continue to draft well like we did the last two years we are going to be solid next year regardless who we bring in. But if Clemens plays like he did last year it's not going to matter, he needs to at least give us average play from the QB spot. With a decent O-Line I hope he can do that

    I'm not that upset about us not getting any FA. None of these FA usually make a difference, I mean is getting the Calivn Pace's and Drayton Florence's of the world going to win us a SB, probably not, but they will get paid like guys who do. If a Suggs, Haynesworth, Gross, etc were out they then I would pay them, however paying Calvin Pace like Suggs isn't going to help the situation.

    I'm still looking at 2009 as the year to seriously contend, don't do anything stupid this offseason that will affect our ability to spend next offseason. Extend Rhodes with a big roster bonus this year, take up 10-15 in cap room with that to lower his #'s in future years, leave some cap so we can pay guys like Leon Washington, Brad Smith or Kellen Clemens if they improve so they don't sniff FA.

    I think we'll sign one big guy with the cap room we have, we can afford to pay market value which is probably overpaying for taht player's performance, but that's the cost of doing buisness nowadays. I definetly see us outspending people for Stacy Andrews or Jacob Bell, I can't see this FO paying Faneca for past performance.
    I agree, 2009 look like we can contend again if our draft goes well. Historically though, when it looks like we will suck, we're pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeyman3 View Post
    Next season is all on Kellen Clemens. He better be good or else we are doomed for next year. I think if we continue to draft well like we did the last two years we are going to be solid next year regardless who we bring in. But if Clemens plays like he did last year it's not going to matter, he needs to at least give us average play from the QB spot. With a decent O-Line I hope he can do that

    I'm not that upset about us not getting any FA. None of these FA usually make a difference, I mean is getting the Calivn Pace's and Drayton Florence's of the world going to win us a SB, probably not, but they will get paid like guys who do. If a Suggs, Haynesworth, Gross, etc were out they then I would pay them, however paying Calvin Pace like Suggs isn't going to help the situation.

    I'm still looking at 2009 as the year to seriously contend, don't do anything stupid this offseason that will affect our ability to spend next offseason. Extend Rhodes with a big roster bonus this year, take up 10-15 in cap room with that to lower his #'s in future years, leave some cap so we can pay guys like Leon Washington, Brad Smith or Kellen Clemens if they improve so they don't sniff FA.
    I couldn't agree more with this post.

    While I'd love us to sign some big name guys this year (mainly offensive lineman), I'm more interested in just bringing ourselves back to respectability and putting together another draft class with some more great young talent added to the team. This way we might be an intriguing place for free agents by next year or, *sigh*, 2010.

    If we can add some more young talent through the draft and bring ourselves to .500 or slightly better with a young nucleus of guys like Mangold, Rhodes, Revis, Harris, D'Brick, Clemens and hopefully another rookie or two from this year, people around the country and league will take notice of us as a team on the rise. This is partly why I feel we really dropped the ball last offseason. We were one of the stories of the NFL last year. We had a "Genius" as our head coach, the "Comeback Player of the Year" who led a believed talentless team to a 10-6 playoff berth, and we were viewed as a team on the up and up. We really blew that momentum big time since than.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JiF View Post
    So whats new?
    I know what you were getting at with this post. And yes, we have never historically been an intriguing place for free agents regardless. However, 2 players in 2 years have accused our front office of blatantly lying to them, our coach is a drill seargent who thinks he is mini Bellichick minus the winning, our landlords just won the Super Bowl, and we have the single worst QB in the NFL based purely on statistics.

    This is far worse than in years past where we simply sucked because on top of all that .... we did suck and pretty much just as bad as ever minus 1996.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMacExchange View Post
    I agree, 2009 look like we can contend again if our draft goes well. Historically though, when it looks like we will suck, we're pretty good.
    I think we'll be in contention for a WC spot with the right offseason moves. There's no way we can compete with the Pats next year unless Brady suffers a torn ACL in training camp though.

    I really don't think this team is that far away, teams turn it around all the time. I think we have enough talent and scheme on defense to win games, however it would be nice if they played well from week 1 next year. Our offense was the main problem last year and once we fix the two turnstiles at RT and LG we go from a dreadful offense to a mediocre offense that could score 18-21 PPG.

    It's futile to predict a record now, but I think this team certainly has better talent than people think, the grass is always greener elsewhere. Does a team like Tampa Bay have much more talent than us, not really, and they won their division last year. Granted they don't have a Patriots in their division but my point still stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMJ View Post
    I know what you were getting at with this post. And yes, we have never historically been an intriguing place for free agents regardless. However, 2 players in 2 years have accused our front office of blatantly lying to them, our coach is a drill seargent who thinks he is mini Bellichick minus the winning, our landlords just won the Super Bowl, and we have the single worst QB in the NFL based purely on statistics.

    This is far worse than in years past where we simply sucked because on top of all that .... we did suck and pretty much just as bad as ever minus 1996.
    It's interesting you bring up Belichick, guys have accused him of forcing him to play with concussions (Ted Johnson). People have said he lost his team after he cut Lawyer Milloy before week 1. People have said he's ruthless and will get rid of you as soon as you lose a step, and guess what, where do all FA want to go now, the Pats even with all this. What we need to do is build a winning fondation, then people will want to come to us. Right now we have to overpay for guys to come, but if we win hopefully we can get guys to want to come here for less to have a chance to win.

    It's not as dire as you are making it out to be. NFL players will usually take the most guaranteed cash unless they are setablished players having made tons of $$$ in their career.

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    Alot of excellent points Ikey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeyman3 View Post
    It's interesting you bring up Belichick, guys have accused him of forcing him to play with concussions (Ted Johnson). People have said he lost his team after he cut Lawyer Milloy before week 1. People have said he's ruthless and will get rid of you as soon as you lose a step, and guess what, where do all FA want to go now, the Pats even with all this. What we need to do is build a winning fondation, then people will want to come to us. Right now we have to overpay for guys to come, but if we win hopefully we can get guys to want to come here for less to have a chance to win.
    While I did bring up Belichick, I also mentioned that our coach is just like him (or tries to be) but minus the winning.

    Winning cures all.

    Win 4 Super Bowls and you can act like Bill does. Everyone wants to win Super Bowls and you'll go there despite him if that is where you can win.

    Look at Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. Have that attitude before proving anything in this league and you will have no job and no respect. Have their attitude while catching over 1,300 yards and 12 TDs every season and teams will still build their offense around you.

    Mangini is trying to be Bill, TO, and Moss before having proved anything. You can only do these types of things and get away with them successfully once you have proven your overall worth. Mangini has not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Alot of excellent points Ikey.
    Non-sarcastic/funny post from 32?

    Your ranking just dropped to #3 in funniest posters on JI. Egadz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMJ View Post
    While I did bring up Belichick, I also mentioned that our coach is just like him (or tries to be) but minus the winning.

    Winning cures all.

    Win 4 Super Bowls and you can act like Bill does. Everyone wants to win Super Bowls and you'll go there despite him if that is where you can win.

    Look at Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. Have that attitude before proving anything in this league and you will have no job and no respect. Have their attitude while catching over 1,300 yards and 12 TDs every season and teams will still build their offense around you.

    Mangini is trying to be Bill, TO, and Moss before having proved anything. You can only do these types of things and get away with them successfully once you have proven your overall worth. Mangini has not.
    What do you want Mangini to do, let the inmates run the asylum. Pay everyone on the roster that *****es about his deal? Cut down his training camp because his players said it was too tough? You want to bring back the Herm/Bradway era?

    Mangini has his style of coaching, he's not going to change. He's going to be a tough SOB, and play a 3-4 system. That's either going to get the Jets to the promised land or he's going to get fired. However, you can't ask Mangini to change his whole style of coaching. The guy has two seasons, one great, one terrible. Last year he was a geniuz that could do whatever he wanted, this year he's a dunce that has to scrap his whole program. I trust Mangini to take the Jets to the next level within the next two years, I don't think he should have to change his ways to get Calvin Pace to come to town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeyman3 View Post
    Non-sarcastic/funny post from 32?

    Your ranking just dropped to #3 in funniest posters on JI. Egadz.
    Excellent posts, Ikey.

    -real talk-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeyman3 View Post
    What do you want Mangini to do, let the inmates run the asylum. Pay everyone on the roster that *****es about his deal? Cut down his training camp because his players said it was too tough? You want to bring back the Herm/Bradway era?

    Mangini has his style of coaching, he's not going to change. He's going to be a tough SOB, and play a 3-4 system. That's either going to get the Jets to the promised land or he's going to get fired. However, you can't ask Mangini to change his whole style of coaching. The guy has two seasons, one great, one terrible. Last year he was a geniuz that could do whatever he wanted, this year he's a dunce that has to scrap his whole program. I trust Mangini to take the Jets to the next level within the next two years, I don't think he should have to change his ways to get Calvin Pace to come to town.
    I think you're taking my points out of context. I'm not one of the b*tchy, moany fans on this board. I didn't make this post to say Mangini should be fired. I didn't make this post to say Mangini and Tannenbaum should pay Coles whatever he wants to shut him up. I think you'd know me better than that by now.

    All I was doing was pointing out facts as the beginning of free agency is looming and we're all sitting around like kids counting down the day to Christmas morning. While I really, REALLY do expect the Jets to be much more active in free agency this year than they have been the past two years, I think all the people expecting to find tons of gifts under the tree are going to be unpleasantly disapointed.

    And if you want answers to your questions:

    No the inmates should not run the asylum.

    Yes, maybe Mangini should cut back on his training camps as football is a long grueling season. Killing yourselves a full month before the season even starts just can't be good for everyone. I don't think it is a coincidence we played our best football after our bye week the past two years.

    No I don't think Coles should get a single dime of new money. Guaranteeing his last two years should be enough for his whiney *ss.

    And as for changing his ways to get Calvin Pace to come to town, that is not the type of guy who would be scared away by us. Pace is going to the highest bidder no matter what. However, a guy like Alan Faneca who still has 5 or so great years in him, is amongst the best players in all the NFL at his position, and knows this will be his last contract he signs, wants another Super Bowl, and knows it will be big money regardless of where he signs ..... he might want to consider changing his ways a little to get a guy like that.

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    I think you're taking my points out of context. I'm not one of the b*tchy, moany fans on this board. I didn't make this post to say Mangini should be fired. I didn't make this post to say Mangini and Tannenbaum should pay Coles whatever he wants to shut him up. I think you'd know me better than that by now.
    Even though I quote you I'm not only responding to you. I know you're one of the more realistic fans on JI, I'm responding the the OMGWTF we didn't sign anyone, this orginization is a joke because we didn't sign the 3rd string FB that was released from the Falcons.

    All I was doing was pointing out facts as the beginning of free agency is looming and we're all sitting around like kids counting down the day to Christmas morning. While I really, REALLY do expect the Jets to be much more active in free agency this year than they have been the past two years, I think all the people expecting to find tons of gifts under the tree are going to be unpleasantly disapointed.
    Agreed, I've been saying this the whole time. People think we are the only team with cap room and we can sign 5 premium FA that will put us over the top.

    No the inmates should not run the asylum.
    Yup, especially 4-12 inmates.

    Yes, maybe Mangini should cut back on his training camps as football is a long grueling season. Killing yourselves a full month before the season even starts just can't be good for everyone. I don't think it is a coincidence we played our best football after our bye week the past two years.
    I think the jury is out on this as well. I think Mangini knows more about how a grueling TC affects these players more than me. He's around the team and speaks to these players. It worked in 2006 very well, when we won 5 out of our last 6 games to make the playoffs many players pointed to Mangini's TC's that helped them get in shape for a 16 game season. I'd leave the softness/hardness of TC to the coach.

    No I don't think Coles should get a single dime of new money. Guaranteeing his last two years should be enough for his whiney *ss.
    Agreed 100%, you signed a very fair deal go play for it.
    And as for changing his ways to get Calvin Pace to come to town, that is not the type of guy who would be scared away by us. Pace is going to the highest bidder no matter what. However, a guy like Alan Faneca who still has 5 or so great years in him, is amongst the best players in all the NFL at his position, and knows this will be his last contract he signs, wants another Super Bowl, and knows it will be big money regardless of where he signs ..... he might want to consider changing his ways a little to get a guy like that
    I don't know if Faneca has 5 more pro-bowl years in him. I don't think he'd be the best use of finances for the team the way it is right now. Any FA we sign should be as good or better in 2010 as they are now if I were running the team. When we get to that point where we are a winner, then we should spend for the present. Keep on building the foundation through the draft and young FA coming off of their rookie contracts, then you add a Faneca/Moss/Thomas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeyman3 View Post
    Even though I quote you I'm not only responding to you. I know you're one of the more realistic fans on JI, I'm responding the the OMGWTF we didn't sign anyone, this orginization is a joke because we didn't sign the 3rd string FB that was released from the Falcons.


    Agreed, I've been saying this the whole time. People think we are the only team with cap room and we can sign 5 premium FA that will put us over the top.


    Yup, especially 4-12 inmates.


    I think the jury is out on this as well. I think Mangini knows more about how a grueling TC affects these players more than me. He's around the team and speaks to these players. It worked in 2006 very well, when we won 5 out of our last 6 games to make the playoffs many players pointed to Mangini's TC's that helped them get in shape for a 16 game season. I'd leave the softness/hardness of TC to the coach.


    Agreed 100%, you signed a very fair deal go play for it.

    I don't know if Faneca has 5 more pro-bowl years in him. I don't think he'd be the best use of finances for the team the way it is right now. Any FA we sign should be as good or better in 2010 as they are now if I were running the team. When we get to that point where we are a winner, then we should spend for the present. Keep on building the foundation through the draft and young FA coming off of their rookie contracts, then you add a Faneca/Moss/Thomas.
    I think you and I are on the same page on an overwhelming majority of issues and what is best for the team overall and moving forward.

    Just like you said that while you were quoting me, your posts weren't really directed at me; I know you're a level headed poster also. This thread wasn't directed at you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeyman3 View Post
    I think we'll be in contention for a WC spot with the right offseason moves. There's no way we can compete with the Pats next year unless Brady suffers a torn ACL in training camp though.

    I really don't think this team is that far away, teams turn it around all the time. I think we have enough talent and scheme on defense to win games, however it would be nice if they played well from week 1 next year. Our offense was the main problem last year and once we fix the two turnstiles at RT and LG we go from a dreadful offense to a mediocre offense that could score 18-21 PPG.

    It's futile to predict a record now, but I think this team certainly has better talent than people think, the grass is always greener elsewhere. Does a team like Tampa Bay have much more talent than us, not really, and they won their division last year. Granted they don't have a Patriots in their division but my point still stands.
    I agree. FA and the draft is around the corner. We should have a better picture soon. If we solidify our G and RT spots our offense will be in good shape. Even if Clem falls on his face, with a good line Jones and Washington can run away with some victories.

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