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Thread: Jets - Where are our strengths?

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    Jets - Where are our strengths?

    This team has a major talent void. I am going to throw my opinions out there, I try to look at it objectively. I have high expectations, and don't wear homer-blinders... for what its worth.

    QB - Kellen is green, too early to dump on him. Penny is done, he might start for about 5-6 other teams in the league, otherwise he is done. Tui was cut by the Raiders, 'nuf said.

    RB - Thomas Jones is a system RB, he has only and will only succeed behind a mauling O-line, see his years in Chicago. Leon is great, at returning punts, and he is Kevin Faulk 2.0, and the fact that he has been better than Reggie Bush cracks me up! Do we even have a 3rd RB right now? Danny Ware?

    FB - Stacey Tutt is not an NFL player, he's an athlete. There is a difference, and Mangini doesn't know what it is, apparently. But go ahead Eric, keep squeezing those round pegs into their square holes.

    TE - Chris Baker, well everyone here insists that this guy is good, but I've never seen him do ****, at least we know he belongs in the league though. Sean Ryan, Kowaleski, Pociask... why do we have so many TE's with no talent. It seems like each of them is good at one thing. How about 1 TE that is good at everything? Novel concept, I know. Dearth is the only one who earns his money here.

    WR - Jerricho and Coles are top notch for this team, if Coles doesn't want to play here it would be a significant loss. Pound for pound these two make the WR position the most talent-rich group that the Jets currently have. Then there's the rest: Brad Smith and McCareins are both getting far more playing time than they deserve. I am not ready to give up on Brad Smith, but his role as a slash player is not fooling anyone. How about coaching this guy to catch, rather than running the option, or every other trick (but not really a trick) play in the book? McCareins, is aweful. Neither of these guys should be talked about as a #3 WR... I am not even going to talk about Wallace Wright, Davis or Ball, if we are debating our #5 and #6 WRs you know what? There is no point to the conversation.

    OL - Mangold is very good. Some of you guys say he's a top Center in the league, but that might be your homer-tendencies speaking. He is bound to be a top C, but not yet. He is without a doubt our best OL, and has played beyond his draft position. Brick, has played below his draft position. He is looking like a bust for where we took him, but not a complete bust in the sense that he can't play in this league. He can play, he just isn't elite - which is sorta what we all expected when we all started drinking the Kool-Aid about how it was smarter to build the line than take a QB, or trade up for Reggie Bush. I'm still glad we took Brick over Leinart, and didn't get Bush - especially since Leinart hurt his shoulder (how ironic would this be if he was a Jet replacing Chad?) and Bush is not better than Leon. Brandon Moore is JAG. Adrien Clarke, Anthony Clement and the rest of them don't belong in the league.

    So on offense we've got Cotch, Coles, Leon, Mangold and Brick. That's the upper echelon of our Offensive "talent." The rest of the offense consists of JAGs like Brandon Moore, Chris Baker and Thomas Jones, and guys that are marginal as far as having a place in the league like Adrien Clarke, Anthony Clement, Stacey Tutt, all those TEs, most of the WR corps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Integrity28 View Post
    This team has a major talent void. I am going to throw my opinions out there, I try to look at it objectively. I have high expectations, and don't wear homer-blinders... for what its worth.

    QB - Kellen is green, too early to dump on him. Penny is done, he might start for about 5-6 other teams in the league, otherwise he is done. Tui was cut by the Raiders, 'nuf said.

    Agree....anyone ready to dump on Kellen already is a jackass.

    RB - Thomas Jones is a system RB, he has only and will only succeed behind a mauling O-line, see his years in Chicago. Leon is great, at returning punts, and he is Kevin Faulk 2.0, and the fact that he has been better than Reggie Bush cracks me up! Do we even have a 3rd RB right now? Danny Ware?

    I think Jones had a solid year, I mean look what he played behind...people said he only had 1 TD..I say TDs don't mean as much...he ran hard. He gets at least another year or two

    FB - Stacey Tutt is not an NFL player, he's an athlete. There is a difference, and Mangini doesn't know what it is, apparently. But go ahead Eric, keep squeezing those round pegs into their square holes.

    I really didn't see this guy too much last year, wasn't he hurt? An upgrade couldn't hurt.

    TE - Chris Baker, well everyone here insists that this guy is good, but I've never seen him do ****, at least we know he belongs in the league though. Sean Ryan, Kowaleski, Pociask... why do we have so many TE's with no talent. It seems like each of them is good at one thing. How about 1 TE that is good at everything? Novel concept, I know. Dearth is the only one who earns his money here.

    Baker is not the problem. He is def a good TE...and the reason there are so many TEs is for blocking packages similar to what NE does...the TEs aren't really a problem...Baker is under utilized but he's there.

    WR - Jerricho and Coles are top notch for this team, if Coles doesn't want to play here it would be a significant loss. Pound for pound these two make the WR position the most talent-rich group that the Jets currently have. Then there's the rest: Brad Smith and McCareins are both getting far more playing time than they deserve. I am not ready to give up on Brad Smith, but his role as a slash player is not fooling anyone. How about coaching this guy to catch, rather than running the option, or every other trick (but not really a trick) play in the book? McCareins, is aweful. Neither of these guys should be talked about as a #3 WR... I am not even going to talk about Wallace Wright, Davis or Ball, if we are debating our #5 and #6 WRs you know what? There is no point to the conversation.

    Coles, as much as I love him will most likely be traded and he can bring in GREAT value...Fitzgerald and Williams are unhappy (just a starting point). Cotchery is exactly what the Jets need, great possesion receiver...the depth here isn't that great and I'm sure it will be restocked in the draft, FA, and/or trade.

    OL - Mangold is very good. Some of you guys say he's a top Center in the league, but that might be your homer-tendencies speaking. He is bound to be a top C, but not yet. He is without a doubt our best OL, and has played beyond his draft position. Brick, has played below his draft position. He is looking like a bust for where we took him, but not a complete bust in the sense that he can't play in this league. He can play, he just isn't elite - which is sorta what we all expected when we all started drinking the Kool-Aid about how it was smarter to build the line than take a QB, or trade up for Reggie Bush. I'm still glad we took Brick over Leinart, and didn't get Bush - especially since Leinart hurt his shoulder (how ironic would this be if he was a Jet replacing Chad?) and Bush is not better than Leon. Brandon Moore is JAG. Adrien Clarke, Anthony Clement and the rest of them don't belong in the league.

    Ferguson, Moore, and Mangold are keepers that leaves two positions to address in the offseason. The Jets must not drop the ball on this one.

    So on offense we've got Cotch, Coles, Leon, Mangold and Brick. That's the upper echelon of our Offensive "talent." The rest of the offense consists of JAGs like Brandon Moore, Chris Baker and Thomas Jones, and guys that are marginal as far as having a place in the league like Adrien Clarke, Anthony Clement, Stacey Tutt, all those TEs, most of the WR corps.
    I'm alot higher on Moore than you are and Baker and Jones could start on most teams but other than that I like your assesment and honestly when I step away from all of this; we don't have any major problems that almost every other team doesn't have....everyone needs to calm down.

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    Secondary - This group could surpass the WRs as the most talented group on the team this year. Revis looks like he has the tools, Rhodes regressed last year, but who didn't. I'll be furious if he doesn't get re-signed. The revolving door at the other S and CB spots is problematic for me, I'd like to see some consistency. Elam showed that he comes to play, Poteat is a JAG who won't kill you, Drew Coleman has been a pretty good 6th (?) round pick, what the hell happened to Andre Dyson? Again, I'd like to see someone brought in to take ownership of the other CB and S roles.

    LBs - David Harris is a beast. If I had to select one player, and only one player that I am most excited about right now as a Jets fan its this guy. Hopefully, he brings it like this year after year. Vilma, I'm not sure what you all see in this guy - great rookie year, and a steady decline since, and while he is in a system that he can't excel in, there is a bigger problem... he's not as good as we want him to be, or want to think he is. Bryan Thomas is a crook, he played well in a contract year, stole money from the organization and then went back to being a sack of ****. Hobson and Barton are getting old, they are old JAGs. Bowens didn't see the field enough, I think he might be a decent situational guy, not a star though.

    DL - DRob needs to play in a 4-3. Ellis can do the job, but he needs a real NT beside him, I think Kenyon Coleman can benefit from the same thing. None of these guys are elite, none of them are marginal. Its mostly a case of Mangini ignoring the fact that he's got players that would excel more in a different system. This is pretty much the weakest unit on the team, its a 1a and 1b relationship with the O-Line.

    So the talent on D? Harris, Rhodes and Revis. The rest of the guys are situational role players, or better suited for the 4-3, as we have all discussed at length.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Integrity28 View Post
    Jets - Where are our strengths?
    The Jets had a cheerleader make it to the Pro Bowl.

    That's pretty damn impressive.

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    we sent a member of the flight crew to the pro-bowl

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    Cotchery
    Coles
    Mangold
    Leon
    Brick
    Harris
    Rhodes
    Revis

    That is the core of "talent" for the Jets right now. On the bright side, many of these guys have been brought in by the current FO. We've got a long list of JAGs, and every team needs them to succeed, but the Jets need to find more names for this list if they want to step out of the cellar. Plain and simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    The Jets had a cheerleader make it to the Pro Bowl.

    That's pretty damn impressive.
    Brady and Moss think there too good for the pro bowl. But I think they didnt want to be embarrased considering it was a week after their CHOKEEEEEEE!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    The Jets had a cheerleader make it to the Pro Bowl.
    How do you know? Did Matt Walsh videotape her there?




    Joking aside, that is exactly why I am going to be scratching my head when people start responding telling me I am wrong, and how we have more talent than what I am saying.... and that Adrien Clarke just needs a chance, and Vilma is our best LB, and Wallace Wright showed "flashes" during preseason, and Matt Chatham is great on special teams, and well you get the point...

    Denial... its not just a river in Africa.





    BTW, your team still cheats.

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    Two words.

    Jacob Bender.

    The Franchise.

    Ok four words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Integrity28 View Post


    Denial... its not just a river in Africa.

    Dude, you are dead on, but you are talking about Jets fans.

    I can't wait until after the draft when all the "Jets will go 12-4" threads start popping up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Dude, you are dead on, but you are talking about Jets fans.

    I can't wait until after the draft when all the "Jets will go 12-4" threads start popping up.
    1. I know I am right.

    2. I can't wait for next year either, especially the post-season to see what the Patriots will do as an encore... let see last year they blew the biggest lead in AFC Championship history to the hated Colts, this year to trump it, they were on the bad end of the 2nd biggest upset in SB history... what can they do to trump those two feats???? Time will only tell...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Babe View Post
    TD's don't mean that much? um...pretty sure that's how you win games.

    If it was the NY Jets vs. Tiger Woods... then I would want Thomas Jones in the red zone, if you catch my drift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Babe View Post
    TD's don't mean that much? um...pretty sure that's how you win games.
    LOL!!!

    Yeah. I read that and thinking the same thing.

    Its no big deal, Thomas Jones managed to stumble upon th endzone once last year as our starting Rb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Babe View Post
    TD's don't mean that much? um...pretty sure that's how you win games.
    Well, according to the Penningtologists, an excellent Pass completion rating is much more desireable. Touchdown, smuchdown. Red zone? schmedzone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JiF View Post
    LOL!!!

    Yeah. I read that and thinking the same thing.

    Its no big deal, Thomas Jones managed to stumble upon th endzone once last year as our starting Rb.
    Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would argue that Jones is more than just a system RB.... seriously he has never produced in his career without a good O-line. Which is fine, many RBs are like that - the coaching staff needs to see it for what it is and get the players on the line to make Jones (and the rest of the offense) more effective. Jones was good in TB for a short stint, behind their mauling O-line and Mike Alstott, then went to Chicago and ran behind their mauling O-line and Aaron McKie. That is the formula for him to be successful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    The Jets had a cheerleader make it to the Pro Bowl.

    That's pretty damn impressive.
    1. Best trolls in the business.
    2. D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
    3. Darrelle Revis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianGreen View Post
    We have internal strength
    this post may be a joke but it's close to the truth


    the 'strength' of the team is the hard work they put in during training camp - it's the strength of character

    most teams are a collection of individuals, the Jets program is trying to be tough enough to get more out of crap talent.

    they got close and lost 8 times this year and the year prior went 10-6. the NFL is about building a program but the end of the day it's players making plays.

    the infrastructure is bad along the OL but hopefully callahan can help not only coach em up but help this team decide who is a bum and who isn't before they get signed or drafted. oh and as a bonus draw up some running plays that make sense (no more motioning fullbacks please)

    the Jets alot of role players but very few (if any) stars

    that last line is the real problem with this team.

    put it in draft terms i'd rather they went DMC and Heath Benedict in first and second round than Jake Long and Cliff Avril or whoever else.

    it should be noted that specials are usually a strength of this team, but with Westoff Retiring that's another huge concern. hopefully mangini was paying attention
    Last edited by bitonti; 02-17-2008 at 11:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    The Jets had a cheerleader make it to the Pro Bowl.

    That's pretty damn impressive.
    Still a little crabby after the Super Bowl loss?

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