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Thread: The question remains-is it Sutton or the players?

  1. #1
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    The question remains-is it Sutton or the players?

    I'm not convinced that Sutton is the main reason we haven't got to the qbs.
    I don't think our players are capable of getting through. I know that lbs and safeties have a lot to do with blitzes, but I'm laying a lot of blame on Eliis and Thomas. Those two get no pressure.

    I don't know why so many people here think highly of Ellis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy-y-y-y View Post
    I'm not convinced that Sutton is the main reason we haven't got to the qbs.
    I don't think our players are capable of getting through. I know that lbs and safeties have a lot to do with blitzes, but I'm laying a lot of blame on Eliis and Thomas. Those two get no pressure.

    I don't know why so many people here think highly of Ellis.
    When you play a 3-4, and rush 3 on 3rd and long, It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get a pass rush because everyone is double teamed!

    Our Blitz sucks because its not creative enough.

    that all falls on the play calling

  3. #3
    Mangini.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LETSGOJETS View Post
    When you play a 3-4, and rush 3 on 3rd and long, It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get a pass rush because everyone is double teamed!

    Our Blitz sucks because its not creative enough.

    that all falls on the play calling
    +1 said it perfectly. The 3-4 is supposed to be advantageous to the 4-3 because it's hard to tell where the extra rushers are coming from since you have one more guy who doesn't have his hand in the dirt. We utilize none of that in deciding whether to blitz.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by LETSGOJETS View Post
    When you play a 3-4, and rush 3 on 3rd and long, It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get a pass rush because everyone is double teamed!

    Our Blitz sucks because its not creative enough.

    that all falls on the play calling
    Thats the main problem. Look at what we we trying to do today. Much of our blitzes were coming from the outside on angles forcing the player to cut, which they could not do today. Revis couldnt do it. Rhodes looked inept trying it. Seattle blitzed up the gut and on straight angles from the edges. They were able to get Favre today that way. We were always two steps too slow to get Wallace because our guys couldnt help but overrun him with the snow covered field. The didnt adjust to the conditions at all.

  6. #6
    its definately sutton. but its also definately the players..at some point you have to man up and get to the quarterback. its obvious some people arent getting the job done, players and staff. we need help on the pass rush

    1. SIGN TERRELL SUGGS- the man is a monster at either DE or rush LB. He is feared by opposing offenses.
    -DROP BRYAN THOMAS (he has been given plenty oppurtunites, played for a contract, got it and now has shut down)
    -RELEASE/TRADE KENYON COLEMAN- what does he give us? we gave him alot of money and he hasnt provided us anything?
    -GIVE GHOLSTON A CHANCE AT DE/OLB-we are paying him. we might as well give him the chance to hold the spot or lose it
    -PLAY MOSELEY ALOT MORE-moseley has the best motor on the line imo. he never quits and continues until the play is over. he makes an impact when he comes in

    with that your front seven would look like:

    moseley,jenkins,suggs
    pace barton harris gholston

  7. #7
    first 8 games of the season 30 sacks 4th in sacks.

    next 7 games of the season 10 sacks. personnel is the same. playcalling sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodjet View Post
    first 8 games of the season 30 sacks 4th in sacks.

    next 7 games of the season 10 sacks. personnel is the same. playcalling sucks.
    Sounds about right.

  9. #9
    Not a question in my mind. Although this D has some holes and could use a few upgrades...It's the coaching staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason423 View Post
    Thats the main problem. Look at what we we trying to do today. Much of our blitzes were coming from the outside on angles forcing the player to cut, which they could not do today. Revis couldnt do it. Rhodes looked inept trying it. Seattle blitzed up the gut and on straight angles from the edges. They were able to get Favre today that way. We were always two steps too slow to get Wallace because our guys couldnt help but overrun him with the snow covered field. The didnt adjust to the conditions at all.
    When you run a 3-4 you MUST come with someone every single down... You also must mix it up. Inside, Outside, Corner, Saftey, MLB, OLB, Create Blitz Decoy plays... all these types of Blitzes should be in the playbook.

    To line up with 3 down lineman and rely on the DB's to cover a WR for 10 seconds is UNACCEPTABLE.

    I dont give a rats ass HOW GOOD of a DB someone is, NOONE is going to cover a receiver in the NFL for 10 seconds like a blanket. ESPECIALLY when our LB's are dropping back... LB's cant cover anyone for 5 seconds let alone 10.

    This problem is NOT the fault of our secondary... You give anyone 10 seconds with no pressure to throw the ball they are gonna find a man every single time.

    And What the Fuk is up with Blitzing the saftey 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LETSGOJETS View Post
    When you run a 3-4 you MUST come with someone every single down... You also must mix it up. Inside, Outside, Corner, Saftey, MLB, OLB, Create Blitz Decoy plays... all these types of Blitzes should be in the playbook.

    To line up with 3 down lineman and rely on the DB's to cover a WR for 10 seconds is UNACCEPTABLE.

    I dont give a rats ass HOW GOOD of a DB someone is, NOONE is going to cover a receiver in the NFL for 10 seconds like a blanket. ESPECIALLY when our LB's are dropping back... LB's cant cover anyone for 5 seconds let alone 10.

    This problem is NOT the fault of our secondary... You give anyone 10 seconds with no pressure to throw the ball they are gonna find a man every single time.

    And What the Fuk is up with Blitzing the saftey 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage?
    How can a coaching staff be so retarded? It's abundantly clear as common sense and yet we do the same crap week in and week out.

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    I agree, but you also need incredible LB's. Smart and aggressive LB's.

    Quote Originally Posted by LETSGOJETS View Post
    When you run a 3-4 you MUST come with someone every single down... You also must mix it up. Inside, Outside, Corner, Saftey, MLB, OLB, Create Blitz Decoy plays... all these types of Blitzes should be in the playbook.

    To line up with 3 down lineman and rely on the DB's to cover a WR for 10 seconds is UNACCEPTABLE.

    I dont give a rats ass HOW GOOD of a DB someone is, NOONE is going to cover a receiver in the NFL for 10 seconds like a blanket. ESPECIALLY when our LB's are dropping back... LB's cant cover anyone for 5 seconds let alone 10.

    This problem is NOT the fault of our secondary... You give anyone 10 seconds with no pressure to throw the ball they are gonna find a man every single time.

    And What the Fuk is up with Blitzing the saftey 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets Voice of Reason View Post
    How can a coaching staff be so retarded? It's abundantly clear as common sense and yet we do the same crap week in and week out.
    All I do is run the defense for Youth football...(just got a freshman high school gig starting next year!)

    But what I am saying is, it does not take a genious to figure out what is going on.


    Your right... Its the same $hit Every Single week.. Dont you think if something is not working adjustments should be made????!!!!!!!!

    WTF!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    I agree, but you also need incredible LB's. Smart and aggressive LB's.
    I believe Barton and Harris are just that.

    Let the Dogs loose!

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    These are not official stats but rather what I was jotting down during passing downs in game.

    3 man rush: 8 times, 1 pressure, 8 completions
    4 man rush: 8 times, 1 pressure, 5 completions
    5 man rush: 6 times, 4 pressures, 3 completions

    How the Jets could not throw the house at an inexperienced QB playing time wise, with a banged up o-line missing multiple players I'll never know. And as usual they were at their most passive early on, a lot of the 3 man rushes came early letting the Hawks o-line and QB gain confidence. I don't care if it is sutton or Mangini or whoever but the coaching is bloody awful. The worst part of it is that people will look at 13 points and feel the Jets played well on defense.

    One really bad sidebar of all of this is that it is my belief that teams that are coached to be passive and just look after gaps and such cannot easily get out of that after having it drummed into their head all year. The Jets d and their play makers on D became so passive that they were used to going backwards and not forcing it, this hurt even the run defense in the long run.

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    At first I thought it was all Sutton (don't get me wrong he needs to go asap) BUT nothing will change as long as Mangini is calling the shots. He is probably the most stubborn HC I have ever seen. He wants things to work his way and is convinced they WILL work, no matter how long he has to do it for. He is convinced it will work and it just all lies on execution.

    We could upgrade a few spots on the defense, but what they have now is not bad at all. They have tremendous talent in key spots, Revis, Rhodes, Harris, Jenkins, Pace. But the way they use them is just wrong in every aspect. And it needs to be changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    These are not official stats but rather what I was jotting down during passing downs in game.

    3 man rush: 8 times, 1 pressure, 8 completions
    4 man rush: 8 times, 1 pressure, 5 completions
    5 man rush: 6 times, 4 pressures, 3 completions

    How the Jets could not throw the house at an inexperienced QB playing time wise, with a banged up o-line missing multiple players I'll never know. And as usual they were at their most passive early on, a lot of the 3 man rushes came early letting the Hawks o-line and QB gain confidence. I don't care if it is sutton or Mangini or whoever but the coaching is bloody awful. The worst part of it is that people will look at 13 points and feel the Jets played well on defense.

    One really bad sidebar of all of this is that it is my belief that teams that are coached to be passive and just look after gaps and such cannot easily get out of that after having it drummed into their head all year. The Jets d and their play makers on D became so passive that they were used to going backwards and not forcing it, this hurt even the run defense in the long run.

    That does not tell the whole tale... you cant just count how many men you send because if you are still not getting in the backfield, its because the blitz is coming from the wrong place, and wrong angle.

    Another problem with a 3 man rush, its almost impossible to stunt the Dline with just 3 on the line.

    There is no deception and its killing us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDL_JET View Post
    At first I thought it was all Sutton (don't get me wrong he needs to go asap) BUT nothing will change as long as Mangini is calling the shots. He is probably the most stubborn HC I have ever seen. He wants things to work his way and is convinced they WILL work, no matter how long he has to do it for. He is convinced it will work and it just all lies on execution.

    We could upgrade a few spots on the defense, but what they have now is not bad at all. They have tremendous talent in key spots, Revis, Rhodes, Harris, Jenkins, Pace. But the way they use them is just wrong in every aspect. And it needs to be changed.
    You are so right.

    Im happy overall with our Defenseive tallent.

    Fire them, Fire them all!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    These are not official stats but rather what I was jotting down during passing downs in game.

    3 man rush: 8 times, 1 pressure, 8 completions
    4 man rush: 8 times, 1 pressure, 5 completions
    5 man rush: 6 times, 4 pressures, 3 completions

    How the Jets could not throw the house at an inexperienced QB playing time wise, with a banged up o-line missing multiple players I'll never know. And as usual they were at their most passive early on, a lot of the 3 man rushes came early letting the Hawks o-line and QB gain confidence. I don't care if it is sutton or Mangini or whoever but the coaching is bloody awful. The worst part of it is that people will look at 13 points and feel the Jets played well on defense.

    One really bad sidebar of all of this is that it is my belief that teams that are coached to be passive and just look after gaps and such cannot easily get out of that after having it drummed into their head all year. The Jets d and their play makers on D became so passive that they were used to going backwards and not forcing it, this hurt even the run defense in the long run.
    We never blitzd 6? If we didnt thats just ridiculous. And as far as blitzing 5...that 5th guy might as well just stay back because sending Rhodes down from 20 yards back will not do a damn thing. Our blitzs consist of having one guy at the end go after the QB. Thats as exotic as it gets

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    These are not official stats but rather what I was jotting down during passing downs in game.

    3 man rush: 8 times, 1 pressure, 8 completions
    4 man rush: 8 times, 1 pressure, 5 completions
    5 man rush: 6 times, 4 pressures, 3 completions

    How the Jets could not throw the house at an inexperienced QB playing time wise, with a banged up o-line missing multiple players I'll never know. And as usual they were at their most passive early on, a lot of the 3 man rushes came early letting the Hawks o-line and QB gain confidence. I don't care if it is sutton or Mangini or whoever but the coaching is bloody awful. The worst part of it is that people will look at 13 points and feel the Jets played well on defense.

    One really bad sidebar of all of this is that it is my belief that teams that are coached to be passive and just look after gaps and such cannot easily get out of that after having it drummed into their head all year. The Jets d and their play makers on D became so passive that they were used to going backwards and not forcing it, this hurt even the run defense in the long run.
    Excellent....

    The Seahawks started Seneca F*CKING Wallace...he of about 10 starts in his career...NOT Mannning, Brees, Roethlisberger et al...


    How do you NOT try and constantly pressure him??? How do you NOT get into his head early and let him camp out back there building confidence along the way???

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