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Thread: Late round OLs...

  1. #1

    Late round OLs...

    Hey Bit I know this is your specialty, can you share some of your late round OL gems? I like the kid from Furman a lot (Bell) do you think he lasts till the 6th round?

    I think we need a couple OL to develop this year, I don't think we can go another season with Hunter and Turner as our only backups to 5 offensive line positions and expect everything will be OK, one or more injuries to the line and we are in real trouble.

    Aside from Turner we haven't developed anyone worth mentioning, I know the Jets love the late round approach so I'm expecting the same this year but I just don't know if another Garner or Bender will do the trick this time, again we have been extremely as far as injuries were concerned last season, but we cannot afford to revisit 07 with an inexperienced QB behind center and only Hunter to back up left and right tackle... that's a scary proposition.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slikmojet View Post
    Hey Bit I know this is your specialty, can you share some of your late round OL gems? I like the kid from Furman a lot (Bell) do you think he lasts till the 6th round?

    I think we need a couple OL to develop this year, I don't think we can go another season with Hunter and Turner as our only backups to 5 offensive line positions and expect everything will be OK, one or more injuries to the line and we are in real trouble.

    Aside from Turner we haven't developed anyone worth mentioning, I know the Jets love the late round approach so I'm expecting the same this year but I just don't know if another Garner or Bender will do the trick this time, again we have been extremely as far as injuries were concerned last season, but we cannot afford to revisit 07 with an inexperienced QB behind center and only Hunter to back up left and right tackle... that's a scary proposition.
    Completely agree with you. Smart planning!

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    heard the jets really like robert brewster from ball st

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    first off 7 OL is what many teams dress every sunday. you only get to dress 45... So unless the league expands rosters whoever is the Jets 8th OL is likely going to be a practice squad player. Slik I don't know why you believe the Jets have a depth position open... they probably don't.

    as for the draft if you go looking for late round OL prospects, 9 out of 10 times you'll end up empty handed. OT isn't like the other positions, you really can't find these guys everywhere. the best go in the first 2 rounds, the sleepers go in rounds 3-5 and everything else is dross. The difference between a college OT and a pro OT is their foot speed and it's not something that can be hidden. To be honest, I don't focus on late round OL because year after year they are a waste of time. The best ones are TE converts like Jason Peters or DL converts like Brandon Moore...

    I could give you names like TJ Lang or Sabastian Vollmer but my gut says if they are legit, these guys end up top 100 when it's all said and done. the best ones always do... I could give you names like Troy Kropog or Fen Tupou but if they are really still there in round 6 or 7 they are damaged goods. I like small schoolers like Roger Allen and Cornelius Lewis but someone's gonna pick em if they are real deal.

    as for Brewster and Bell... meh. high risk low cost sleepers that probably don't amount to much. basically if you go shopping in round 6 for OT you are coming home with a Jacob Bender type of player, less than 20% chance of success.
    Last edited by bitonti; 04-11-2009 at 02:44 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Slikmojet View Post
    I know the Jets love the late round approach so I'm expecting the same this year but I just don't know if another Garner or Bender will do the trick this time,
    That "late round approach" is the reason why we're constantly over-paying free-agent O-linemen like Faneca & Woody.
    Tanny needs to learn from his past mistakes (Bender, Garner, etc...) and draft a quality offensive lineman in the early rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardTodd27 View Post
    That "late round approach" is the reason why we're constantly over-paying free-agent O-linemen like Faneca & Woody.
    Tanny needs to learn from his past mistakes (Bender, Garner, etc...) and draft a quality offensive lineman in the early rounds.
    There are ALOT of good OL players who have been drafted in the later rounds or weren't even drafted at all. The Patriots have the best O-line in the NFL and yet it has a 5th round pick (Koppen) and an undrafted rookie free agent (Neal) and only one 1st round pick starting. Tanenbaum's problem is that he hasn't been able to spot any talent in the late rounds.

    Bender had garbage written all over him even prior to the draft.
    Last edited by VincenzoTestaverde; 04-11-2009 at 06:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardTodd27 View Post
    That "late round approach" is the reason why we're constantly over-paying free-agent O-linemen like Faneca & Woody.
    Tanny needs to learn from his past mistakes (Bender, Garner, etc...) and draft a quality offensive lineman in the early rounds.
    Dude, he drafted D-brick and Mangold in his first year as GM.

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    If you want a late-round OL take a gamble on this guy Alex Boone. He's 6'7 330 lbs and a three year starter at Ohio State. He'd probably be a day one pick if it wasn't for a couple run-ins with the law. Likes birra but what college kid doesn't? Definitely a boom-bust prospect who could end up giving us solid depth at Tackle and Guard.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_4-Bewyq0A

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    first off 7 OL is what many teams dress every sunday. you only get to dress 45... So unless the league expands rosters whoever is the Jets 8th OL is likely going to be a practice squad player. Slik I don't know why you believe the Jets have a depth position open... they probably don't.

    as for the draft if you go looking for late round OL prospects, 9 out of 10 times you'll end up empty handed. OT isn't like the other positions, you really can't find these guys everywhere. the best go in the first 2 rounds, the sleepers go in rounds 3-5 and everything else is dross. The difference between a college OT and a pro OT is their foot speed and it's not something that can be hidden. To be honest, I don't focus on late round OL because year after year they are a waste of time. The best ones are TE converts like Jason Peters or DL converts like Brandon Moore...

    I could give you names like TJ Lang or Sabastian Vollmer but my gut says if they are legit, these guys end up top 100 when it's all said and done. the best ones always do... I could give you names like Troy Kropog or Fen Tupou but if they are really still there in round 6 or 7 they are damaged goods. I like small schoolers like Roger Allen and Cornelius Lewis but someone's gonna pick em if they are real deal.

    as for Brewster and Bell... meh. high risk low cost sleepers that probably don't amount to much. basically if you go shopping in round 6 for OT you are coming home with a Jacob Bender type of player, less than 20% chance of success.




    Bit you know what's coming now, I will go out to dinner and movie and then come back and go Ivan Drago on your a$$ (I will bRrReak yOu) So enjoy these few hours before I come back and totally demolish your OL argument... I asked Al if it was OK to go medieval on you on the interwebz given that we're boys and all, he said I shouldn't but I disagree... I'm going to break your argument like a twig... Bwahahahahahahahahahaha Dinner and movie... just wait

  10. #10
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    Bit...do you like Michael Oher at #17? Seems like a moderate chance he's still on the board there.

  11. #11
    "as for the draft if you go looking for late round OL prospects, 9 out of 10 times you'll end up empty handed. OT isn't like the other positions, you really can't find these guys everywhere. the best go in the first 2 rounds, the sleepers go in rounds 3-5 and everything else is dross. The difference between a college OT and a pro OT is their foot speed and it's not something that can be hidden. To be honest, I don't focus on late round OL because year after year they are a waste of time. The best ones are TE converts like Jason Peters or DL converts like Brandon Moore... "





    OK so I picked 2005 as a sample year and here's what I found:

    NY Giants:


    Starting Guard-David Diehl- 5th round
    Starting Center- Shaun O'hara- Undrafted

    Top backups: Jason Hilliard- Undrafted, Jason Whittle- Undrafted, Brandon Winey- 6th round


    Philadelphia Eagles:

    Starting Center- Hank Fraley- Undrafted
    Starting Guard- Artis Hicks- Undrafted


    Top backups: T Jamaal Jackson- Undrafted, T Calvin Armstrong- 6th rounder


    Washington Redskins:

    No starters after the first 3 rounds.

    Top backups: G Ray Brown- 8th round (86 draft)
    T Mark Wilson- 5th round


    Dallas Cowboys:


    Starting Tackle- Torrin Tucker- Undrafted
    Starting Guard- Marco Rivera- 6th rounder


    Top backups: G Ben Noll- Undrafted, T Rob Pettiti- Undrafted, T Kurt Vollers- Undrafted, C Tyson Walter- 6th round


    Chicago Bears:


    Starting Tackle- Fred Miller- 5th round


    Top backups:

    G Qasim Mitchell- Undrafted, G Bryan Anderson- 7th round, T Rob Droege- Undrafted



    Detroit Lions:


    Starting Guard- Rick DeMulling- 7th round
    Starting Tackle- Kyle Kosier- 7th round

    Top backups: T Sean Bubin 5th round, T Kelly Butler 6th round, C/G Tyrone Hopson 5th round, T Victor Rogers 7th round.



    Green Bay Packers:


    Starting Tackle- Mark Tausher- Undrafted


    Top backups: T Kevin Barry- Undrafted, C Scott Wells Undrafted, T/G Brad Bedell 6th round, C Junius Coston 5th rounder.


    Minnesota Vikings:


    Starting Center- Matt Birk- Undrafted
    Starting Guard- Adam Goldberg- Undrafted
    Starting Guard- Chris Liwienski- 7th round
    Starting Tackle- Mike Rosenthal- 5th round


    Top backups: G Anthony Herrera Undrafted, C Corey Withrow Undrafted,


    Atlanta Falcons:

    Starting Guard- Kynan Forney 7th round
    Starting Guard - Matt Lehr- 5th round
    Starting Center- Todd McClure- 7th round
    Starting Tackle- Kevin Shaffer- 7th round

    Top backups: G Steve Herndon Undrafted, T Frank Omiyale 5th round.


    Carolina Panthers:


    Starting Center- Jeff Mitchell- 5th round
    Starting Guard- Tutan Reyes- 5th round



    Top backups: G Joe Berger Undrafted, G Tupe Peko 7th rounder, T Todd Fordham Undrafted.


    New Orleans Saints:


    Starting Center: Kendyll Jacox- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Jamar Nesbitt- Undrafted



    Top backups: T Spencer Folau- Undrafted, G Dwayne Ledford Undrafted.


    Tampa Bay Bucs:


    Starting Guard: Anthony Davis- Undrafted
    Starting Tackle: Derrick Deese- Undrafted
    Starting Tackle: Jeb Terry- 5th round
    Starting Guard: John Wade- 5th round


    Top backups: G Shaun Mahan 5th round, T Matt Martin Undrafted.


    Arizona Cardinals:


    Starting Guard- Jeremy Bridges- 6th round
    Starting Tackle- Oliver Ross- 5th round
    Starting Guard- Reggie Wells- 6th round

    Top backups: G Fred Wakefield Undrafted, T Ian Allen Undrafted, T Adam Haayer Undrafted, C Nick Leckey 6th round, T Alan Reuber Undrafted.


    St Louis Rams:


    Starting C: Andy McCollum- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Adam Timmerman- 7th round


    Top backups: T Scott Tercero Undrafted, G Darnell Alford 6th round, T Blaine Saipea Undrafted.



    San Francisco 49ners:


    Starting Guard: Eric Heitman- 7th round.

    Top backups: C Rob Murphy Undrafted.



    Seattle Seahawks:


    Starting Guard: Chris Gray- 5th round
    Starting Center: Robbie Tobeck- Undrafted


    Buffalo Bills:


    Starting Guard: Bennie Anderson- Undrafted
    Starting Center: Trey Teague- 7th round
    Starting Guard: Chris Villareal- 5th rounder


    Top backups: T Jason Peters- Undrafted, T Dylan McFarland 7th round, G Russ Tucker Undrafted, G Justin Geisinger Undrafted.


    Miami Dolphins:


    Starting Guard: Geno James- 6th round
    Starting Tackle: Damion Cook- Undrafted
    Staring Center: Rex Hadnot- 6th rounder


    Top backups: G Jason Thomas 7th round



    New England Patriots:


    Starting Tackle: Tom Ashworth- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Stephen Neal- Undrafted
    Starting Center: Dan Koppen- 5th round
    Staring Guard: Russ Hochstein- 5th round


    Top backups: T Billy Yates Undrafted, T Jeff Roehl Undrafted, G Brandon Gorin Undrafted.


    New York Jets:


    Starting Guard: Brandon Moore- Undrafted

    Top backups: G Jonathan Goodwin 5th round, G Dave Yovanovits 7th round, T Marko Cavka 6th round.


    Baltimore Ravens:


    Starting Tackle: Orlando Brown- Undrafted
    Starting Center: Mike Flynn- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Keydrick Vincent: Undrafted

    Top backups: T Tony Pashos 5th round, G Brian Rimpf 7th round.



    Cincinatti Bengals:


    No starters after the 3rd round.


    Top backups: G Scott Kooistra 7th round, C Ben Wilkerson Undrafted, T Alex Sulfsted 6th round.


    Cleveland Browns:


    Starting Guard: Joe Andruzzi- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Enoc DeMar- Undrafted


    Top backups: None



    Pittsburgh Steelers:


    No starters after the 3rd round

    Top backups: G Chris Kemoeatu 6th round, C Chukky Okobi 5th round.


    Houston Texans:


    Starting Guard: Milford Brown- 7th round


    Top backups: T Chad Beasley 7th round, G Brandon Evans Undrafted.


    Indianapolis Colts:


    Starting Center: Jeff Saturday- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Ryan Lilja- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Jake Scott- 5th round

    Top backups: T Makoa Fleitas 6th round, C Rob Hunt 5th round.



    Jacksonville Jaguars:


    Starting Tackle: Ephraim Salaam- 7th round


    Top backups: T Derrick Fletcher 5th round.



    Starting Tackle: Jacob Bell- 5th round
    Starting Center: Justin Hartwig- 6th round
    Starting Guard- Benji Olson- 5th round



    Top backups: T Daniel Loper 5th round, G Todd Williams 7th round.


    Denver Broncos:


    Starting Center: Tom Nalen- 7th rounder
    Starting Tackle: Matt Lepsis- Undrafted



    Top backups: T PJ Alexander Undrafted, T Tyson Clabo Undrafted, C Josh Sewell 6th rounder.


    Kansas City Chiefs


    Starting Center: Casey Weigman- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Brian Waters- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Jordan Black- 5th round


    Top backups: T Will Svitek 6th round, T Chris Bober Undrafted, T Jeremy Parquet 7th round, T Kevin Sampson 7th rounder.


    Oakland Raiders:


    Starting Tackle: Barry Sims- Undrafted
    Starting Guard: Brad Badger- 5th round
    Starting Tackle: Chad Slaughter- Undrafted


    Top backups: G Corey Hulsey Undrafed.


    San Diego Chargers:


    Starting Tackle: Shane Olivea- 7th round


    Top backups: G Wes Sims 6th round, G Scott Mruczkowski 7th round, T Wesley Britt 5th round, C David Brandt 5th round.




    So you see Bit the evidence is overwhelmingly against you; late rounders and even free agent offensive linemen do go on to start and become valuable additions, so the idea of looking at linemen late in the draft is not far fetched in the least, in fact it's what smart teams do.

    I picked a random year (05) just to prove a point that in any given year NFL rosters will have on their offensive lines 40 to 60 percent of all players drafted after the 5th round. You have to loosen up and not dismiss so easily especially after the first few rounds, by the way you don't want me to go there regarding TE's or do you now? You claim Alex Smith is the only all around TE drafted in the last 5 years, I strongly disagree but I will leave it at that since this is very tiring.

  12. #12
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    You had that last post ready, didn't you Slik? Threw out the bait at the start of the thread and Bitonti gobbled it up hook, line and sinker.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Death View Post
    You had that last post ready, didn't you Slik? Threw out the bait at the start of the thread and Bitonti gobbled it up hook, line and sinker.



    My post had a poison pill...

  14. #14
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    slik thanks for letting me know that there are a bunch of sh*tbums playing in the league. other than Brian Waters and Jeff Saturday (players no one knew about pre-draft) that was a truly pathetic list. the only thing more pathetic than the ability of the players on that list is the fact you took the time to type it up.

    did you actually put Dave Yovanovitz on that list? Really? Cavka's experience was limited to NFL Europe. 90% of those names absolute suck nuts.


    oh by the way you know who else was a late round pick who had starter experience? Adrian Clarke.

    I rest my case.
    Last edited by bitonti; 04-12-2009 at 01:59 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycdan View Post
    Bit...do you like Michael Oher at #17? Seems like a moderate chance he's still on the board there.
    If he's there he's BAP, but I think those who project him falling to late round 1 are not able to evaluate OL film. He's my #1 tackle.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    slik thanks for letting me know that there are a bunch of sh*tbums playing in the league. other than Brian Waters and Jeff Saturday (players no one knew about pre-draft) that was a truly pathetic list. the only thing more pathetic than the ability of the players on that list is the fact you took the time to type it up.



    Look at the list again wiseguy and you'll notice how many "shtbums" are starting in the league.


    "did you actually put Dave Yovanovitz on that list? Really? Cavka's experience was limited to NFL Europe. 90% of those names absolute suck nuts."

    They were our backups that year, they sucked but that's what we had... at the end of the day more than 50% of NFL starting Olinemen were drafted after the 5th round, that's a fact that escapes you I see but the evidence is too strong for you to dismiss it.


    "oh by the way you know who else was a late round pick who had starter experience? Adrian Clarke.

    I rest my case.
    "



    Bit you have no case my fridnd, I don't call a feeble attempt to throw some a couple of sentences together a case. Even Adrian Clarke as bad as he is started for like 8 games with the Eagles and did a good job that year.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slikmojet View Post
    "



    Bit you have no case my fridnd, I don't call a feeble attempt to throw some a couple of sentences together a case. Even Adrian Clarke as bad as he is started for like 8 games with the Eagles and did a good job that year.

    defending adrien Clarke

    it's time to re-evaluate.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    defending adrien Clarke

    it's time to re-evaluate.



    You are becoming a sinking Titanic with every reply Bit.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    slik thanks for letting me know that there are a bunch of sh*tbums playing in the league. other than Brian Waters and Jeff Saturday (players no one knew about pre-draft) that was a truly pathetic list. the only thing more pathetic than the ability of the players on that list is the fact you took the time to type it up.

    did you actually put Dave Yovanovitz on that list? Really? Cavka's experience was limited to NFL Europe. 90% of those names absolute suck nuts.


    oh by the way you know who else was a late round pick who had starter experience? Adrian Clarke.

    I rest my case.
    I know what you're saying here, but there are way more quality guys other than Saturday and Waters from this list.

    Tausher, Birk, Diehl, O'Hara, and Marco Rivera just to name a few

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I know what you're saying here, but there are way more quality guys other than Saturday and Waters from this list.

    Tausher, Birk, Diehl, O'Hara, and Marco Rivera just to name a few
    there's like 50 names on that list!

    Slik shows up wondering who the Jets are gonna draft in the late round for OL depth. There isn't a roster spot, there isn't a starter obvious to replace... and 9 out of 10 of these guys end up stinking... why bother even having this convo?

    he asked me an honest question I gave him an honest answer. There are probably gonna be RB, WR, DE who can play pro football and go in the late rounds. There are probably not going to be any OL worth a darn taken after round 6.
    Last edited by bitonti; 04-13-2009 at 10:36 AM.

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