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Thread: Jets' 09 Defense

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    Jets' 09 Defense

    Clearly it would seem that the defense will have to carry the team this year along with a strong running game. The question is how much of a difference will a Rex Ryan scheme along with several new additions in the form of Scott and Leonard make. Was Ryan's success in Baltimore predicated more on the talent of his personnel such as Lewis, Suggs and Reed or was it due to him being a defensive genius that was able to elevate their play?
    On paper it would appear that the Jets have as strong a unit as the Ravens did last year. I've never considered Ellis or Pace to be sack machines but they each registered 8 and 7 sacks respectively last season. This no doubt in large part due to the inside presence of Jenkins.
    Suggs was the Ravens premier rusher and he had 8 sacks. Of course the strength of a defense goes well beyond how many sacks they have. Yet given the talent on this team and Rex's aggressive approach I'm expecting a much better unit than Mangini fielded last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinobreath View Post
    Clearly it would seem that the defense will have to carry the team this year along with a strong running game. The question is how much of a difference will a Rex Ryan scheme along with several new additions in the form of Scott and Leonard make. Was Ryan's success in Baltimore predicated more on the talent of his personnel such as Lewis, Suggs and Reed or was it due to him being a defensive genius that was able to elevate their play?
    On paper it would appear that the Jets have as strong a unit as the Ravens did last year. I've never considered Ellis or Pace to be sack machines but they each registered 8 and 7 sacks respectively last season. This no doubt in large part due to the inside presence of Jenkins.
    Suggs was the Ravens premier rusher and he had 8 sacks. Of course the strength of a defense goes well beyond how many sacks they have. Yet given the talent on this team and Rex's aggressive approach I'm expecting a much better unit than Mangini fielded last year.
    As a rookie in the 3-4 Ellis had 8 1/2 sacks with Fergy on the inside..

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    I think Rex Ryan will have this Defense playing lights out here in 2009. The talent is there, the potential is there, the youth is there and the veteran leadership is there...It's just a matter of putting it into a game plan and allowing these players to do what they do best...Make plays while playing smart Defense. Hold teams to FG's instead of TD's and come up with big stops during the course of a game. Over the years... Monte Kiffin and Rex Ryan has been known as some of the very best DC's around the game and I trust this Defense with Rex Ryan coming up with a weekly game plan.

    We should have a solid pass rush from the outside with Pace and Gholston. I really feel Rex Ryan will use Gholston the right way and allow this kid to rush the opposing QB like no tomorrow in obvious passing situations.

    I believe that Bart Scott will add a swagger and a mean streak to this Defense, this man will not allow players around him to play "Soft". My wifes older bro is a huge Ravens fan and he feels Bart Scott is an animal out there. We should have a really solid 1-2 punch at the MLB position here in 09 with David Harris and Bart Scott running the show. Bart Scott will bring an intensity, toughness and aggressive type of style of play thats 2nd to none. This Jets D has needed a player like this, ever since Bryan Cox and it's just to bad we never had that man durins his prime years.

    Without an elite/beast of a NT, you have no 3-4 Defense. I's exciting to know that the Jets have Kris Jenkins, a really talented 3-4 NT and one hell of a player. As long as he can stay healthy, this Jets run Defense can be the best we have ever seen from a Jets team.

    Harris and Scott playing behind Kris Jenkins? I love the potential of this run D and with players like Pace and Gholston rushing from the outside...Our secondary can win us alot of games.

    Revis is already considered to be a top 5 CB (He can man up with any #1 WR) and Kerry Rhodes is also a top 5 talent in the eyes of many. Lito Sheppard should be an upgrade over a 35 year old JAG in Ty Law and lets not forget that Dwight Lowery should be "that much better" just off the playing time and experience that he gained as a rookie last year.

    I'm a huge fan of the Jim Leonard signing as our safety opposite of Kerry Rhodes. Leondard is known to be solid against the pass, and last year, with Abram Elam, it was hard to send Rhodes on the blitz because Elam was simply lost and confused out there in pass coverage. Sending Rhodes on the blitz would have left our entire secondary exposed to the big play thanks to Elam not knowing how to play back in pass coverage. With Leonard...I think Rex Ryan will send Rhodes on the blitz alot more often which could cause alot of turnovers for our Defense.

    Overall...I think our Defense will be lights out with Rex Ryan calling the shots. Players like Harris, Gholston, Rhodes, Pace and Sheppard could really suprise alot of Jet fans here in 2009 with solid impacts
    Last edited by DefenseWinsChampionships2; 05-25-2009 at 12:54 AM.

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    thinking about the front 7 is scary...... Harris, Scott, Pace, Gholston/Thomas, Jenkings, Ellis, Douglas........The only weakness being the DE position but the other 6 are just downright scary

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    What does "use Gholston right" mean? Is that code for "make Gholston not suck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chica me Tipo View Post
    What does "use Gholston right" mean? Is that code for "make Gholston not suck?
    An attacking scheme is much more suited to his talents than read-and-react, especially at this point in his career.

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    An attacking scheme is much more suited for any D player...unfortunately it's 2009 and NFL offenses realized how to beat that 20 years ago.

    From what I've read from Ravens fans they complained about the same things...dropping alot of guys into coverage...notice their best pass rusher only had 8 sacks last year.

    We're buying hype right now...well you guys are...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chica me Tipo View Post
    An attacking scheme is much more suited for any D player...unfortunately it's 2009 and NFL offenses realized how to beat that 20 years ago.

    From what I've read from Ravens fans they complained about the same things...dropping alot of guys into coverage...notice their best pass rusher only had 8 sacks last year.

    We're buying hype right now...well you guys are...
    True, and for 3/4 of last season, every player on our defense not named Gholston seemed to thrive in a read-and-react, so who knows. I personally was never a huge fan of Mangini's schemes...no guarantee Ryan's will be better, but it will be interesting to see.

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    What I hated the most was the tendency to start playing prevent defense once we get a lead in the 2nd half. Maybe not "prevent" per se, but certainly not with the same schemes we were using to keep the other team from scoring throughout the first half of the game. I wouldn't mind prevent defense if we were up by 2 or more possessions late in the 4th, but not with a one possession lead!

    We lost or nearly lost a few games with that kind of defense a few times this year - the 2nd Pittsburgh game comes to mind.
    Yeah that just sounds so familiar...

    http://www.profootball24x7.com/forum...ad.php?t=35130

  10. #10
    If rex ryan can duplicate the ravens 2008 season with the jets defense i won't say a damn thing.

    Ravens 5th in the nfl in total defense yards given up .

    Ravens 3rd in total points given up with 15.2 a game.

    i'm not worried with the defense it's the offense they might have trouble scoring 13 pts a game with a rookie qb and below average wideouts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chica me Tipo View Post
    Yeah that just sounds so familiar...

    http://www.profootball24x7.com/forum...ad.php?t=35130
    Interesting. Mangini's defense never played Roethlisburger all that much but when he did he managed to take away his best aspect which was rolling out and making a play. Hopefully Ryan figures out a better way to contain him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodjet View Post
    If rex ryan can duplicate the ravens 2008 season with the jets defense i won't say a damn thing.

    Ravens 5th in the nfl in total defense yards given up .

    Ravens 3rd in total points given up with 15.2 a game.

    i'm not worried with the defense it's the offense they might have trouble scoring 13 pts a game with a rookie qb and below average wideouts.
    As long as Jenkins is healthy our run defense will be top 5 - maybe top 3. I expect our pass defense to be better not b/c our pass rush will be improved or Vernon Buston will magically turn into a player but b/c Lito is a solid #2 CB and Ryan's coverage schemes will be smart and aggressive not retarded and conservative like Mangina's. Our pass defense won't be great or even good but it will be better.

    It all hinges on the big beast at NT staying healthy though. Without him we're dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DefenseWinsChampionships2 View Post
    I think Rex Ryan will have this Defense playing lights out here in 2009. The talent is there, the potential is there, the youth is there and the veteran leadership is there...It's just a matter of putting it into a game plan and allowing these players to do what they do best...Make plays while playing smart Defense. Hold teams to FG's instead of TD's and come up with big stops during the course of a game. Over the years... Monte Kiffin and Rex Ryan has been known as some of the very best DC's around the game and I trust this Defense with Rex Ryan coming up with a weekly game plan.

    We should have a solid pass rush from the outside with Pace and Gholston. I really feel Rex Ryan will use Gholston the right way and allow this kid to rush the opposing QB like no tomorrow in obvious passing situations.

    I believe that Bart Scott will add a swagger and a mean streak to this Defense, this man will not allow players around him to play "Soft". My wifes older bro is a huge Ravens fan and he feels Bart Scott is an animal out there. We should have a really solid 1-2 punch at the MLB position here in 09 with David Harris and Bart Scott running the show. Bart Scott will bring an intensity, toughness and aggressive type of style of play thats 2nd to none. This Jets D has needed a player like this, ever since Bryan Cox and it's just to bad we never had that man durins his prime years.

    Without an elite/beast of a NT, you have no 3-4 Defense. I's exciting to know that the Jets have Kris Jenkins, a really talented 3-4 NT and one hell of a player. As long as he can stay healthy, this Jets run Defense can be the best we have ever seen from a Jets team.

    Harris and Scott playing behind Kris Jenkins? I love the potential of this run D and with players like Pace and Gholston rushing from the outside...Our secondary can win us alot of games.

    Revis is already considered to be a top 5 CB (He can man up with any #1 WR) and Kerry Rhodes is also a top 5 talent in the eyes of many. Lito Sheppard should be an upgrade over a 35 year old JAG in Ty Law and lets not forget that Dwight Lowery should be "that much better" just off the playing time and experience that he gained as a rookie last year.

    I'm a huge fan of the Jim Leonard signing as our safety opposite of Kerry Rhodes. Leondard is known to be solid against the pass, and last year, with Abram Elam, it was hard to send Rhodes on the blitz because Elam was simply lost and confused out there in pass coverage. Sending Rhodes on the blitz would have left our entire secondary exposed to the big play thanks to Elam not knowing how to play back in pass coverage. With Leonard...I think Rex Ryan will send Rhodes on the blitz alot more often which could cause alot of turnovers for our Defense.

    Overall...I think our Defense will be lights out with Rex Ryan calling the shots. Players like Harris, Gholston, Rhodes, Pace and Sheppard could really suprise alot of Jet fans here in 2009 with solid impacts
    I wasn't aware you had such high hopes for the Jets defense this year.

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    Every defense coordinator has his flaws and people are going to continue to complain either way, whether it is only rushing 3, or constantly blitzing and not getting to the QB. I feel though that an attacking type of defense such as Rex's can have much more success than a read and react defense such as Mangini's.

    I remember Mangini's first year and that year we had a defense that was in constant motion and would continuously confuse the opposing QB and it was very successful considering the lack of talent we had that year on defense. Why we abandoned that I do not know but we have Rex now and he has that element of confusion in his scheme and I think Jets fans will be much happier with their defense under Rex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chica me Tipo View Post
    What does "use Gholston right" mean? Is that code for "make Gholston not suck?
    Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinobreath View Post
    Clearly it would seem that the defense will have to carry the team this year along with a strong running game. The question is how much of a difference will a Rex Ryan scheme along with several new additions in the form of Scott and Leonard make. Was Ryan's success in Baltimore predicated more on the talent of his personnel such as Lewis, Suggs and Reed or was it due to him being a defensive genius that was able to elevate their play?
    On paper it would appear that the Jets have as strong a unit as the Ravens did last year. I've never considered Ellis or Pace to be sack machines but they each registered 8 and 7 sacks respectively last season. This no doubt in large part due to the inside presence of Jenkins.
    Suggs was the Ravens premier rusher and he had 8 sacks. Of course the strength of a defense goes well beyond how many sacks they have. Yet given the talent on this team and Rex's aggressive approach I'm expecting a much better unit than Mangini fielded last year.



    The Ravens defense is ED REED, which the Jets DO NOT HAVE.........sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDgreenN'white View Post
    Every defense coordinator has his flaws and people are going to continue to complain either way, whether it is only rushing 3, or constantly blitzing and not getting to the QB. I feel though that an attacking type of defense such as Rex's can have much more success than a read and react defense such as Mangini's.

    I remember Mangini's first year and that year we had a defense that was in constant motion and would continuously confuse the opposing QB and it was very successful considering the lack of talent we had that year on defense. Why we abandoned that I do not know but we have Rex now and he has that element of confusion in his scheme and I think Jets fans will be much happier with their defense under Rex.
    Question for the board since I constantly see read and react regurgitated by this board...what did Mangini do to the D in the first 11 games of last year when we piled up sacks and laid just outside the top 5 against the run?

    What does read and react even mean?

    Why do I always get this feeling that people are just saying this stuff because they hear others say this stuff and therefore it has to be true? Mangini's D didn't look very read and react when Jenkins was healthy last year. It looked like a "kick your ass" kind of D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chica me Tipo View Post
    Question for the board since I constantly see read and react regurgitated by this board...what did Mangini do to the D in the first 11 games of last year when we piled up sacks and laid just outside the top 5 against the run?

    What does read and react even mean?

    Why do I always get this feeling that people are just saying this stuff because they hear others say this stuff and therefore it has to be true? Mangini's D didn't look very read and react when Jenkins was healthy last year. It looked like a "kick your ass" kind of D.
    It means that a) he rarely blitzed (unless you count sending one LB--i.e. a 4-man rush--as a blitz), b) the defensive line's primary responsibility is maintaining gap/rushing lane integrity rather than collapsing the pocket, and c) that LBs are expected to take advantage of that gap integrity by diagnosing and reacting to plays rather than simply rushing upfield.

    There's nothing wrong with the read-and-react itself; it's just that because Mangini's version involves little blitzing/pre-snap motion/etc., it takes a dominant defensive line to work (otherwise the LBs get tied up and can't make plays). This is why Belichick, who runs more or less the same system, has consistently been able to field defenses that rank somewhere between "pretty good" and "dominant" during his time in NE; Dom Capers is also a proponent of this system IIRC, and he's produced some pretty great defenses as well.

    For the first 10-12 weeks of last season, we had a dominant defensive line. When Jenkins wore down, our line became pretty average. I'm not a huge fan of the read-and-react generally, but to Mangini's credit, once he got ahold of Jenkins, he made it work. But when Jenkins wore down, our defense fell apart--part of that is not at all Mangini's fault--any defense will fall apart when its best player is less than 100%; but I also didn't see any adjustments made to take pressure off Jenkins (more blitzing, 4-3 looks, disguises and pre-snap movements, etc).
    Last edited by dbatesman; 05-25-2009 at 02:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbatesman View Post
    It means that a) he rarely blitzed (unless you count sending one LB--i.e. a 4-man rush--as a blitz), b) the defensive line's primary responsibility is maintaining gap/rushing lane integrity rather than collapsing the pocket, and c) that LBs are expected to take advantage of that gap integrity by diagnosing and reacting to plays rather than simply rushing upfield.

    There's nothing wrong with the read-and-react itself; it's just that because Mangini's version involves little blitzing/pre-snap motion/etc., it takes a dominant defensive line to work (otherwise the LBs get tied up and can't make plays). This is why Belichick, who runs more or less the same system, has consistently been able to field defenses that rank somewhere between "pretty good" and "dominant" during his time in NE; Dom Capers is also a proponent of this system IIRC, and he's produced some pretty great defenses as well.

    For the first 10-12 weeks of last season, we had a dominant defensive line. When Jenkins wore down, our line became pretty average. I'm not a huge fan of the read-and-react generally, but to Mangini's credit, once he got ahold of Jenkins, he made it work. But when Jenkins wore down, our defense fell apart--part of that is not at all Mangini's fault--any defense will fall apart when its best player is less than 100%; but I also didn't see any adjustments made to take pressure off Jenkins (more blitzing, 4-3 looks, disguises and pre-snap movements, etc).
    I'm just skeptical because:

    1. Mangini tried to hire the guys brother for 3 years.

    2. How different can his brother's philosophy be?

    3. Which leads me to think that Reed/Lewis/Ngata were the keys to that D, not Ryan.

    I'm being a downer probably...but I'm just very skeptical of our new HC...doesn't seem much more than a figurehead...at least this time I trust our coordinators a whooooole lot...I think the Pettine hiring was as important, if not moreso, as the Ryan hiring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chica me Tipo View Post
    I'm just skeptical because:

    1. Mangini tried to hire the guys brother for 3 years.

    2. How different can his brother's philosophy be?

    3. Which leads me to think that Reed/Lewis/Ngata were the keys to that D, not Ryan.

    I'm being a downer probably...but I'm just very skeptical of our new HC...doesn't seem much more than a figurehead...at least this time I trust our coordinators a whooooole lot...I think the Pettine hiring was as important, if not moreso, as the Ryan hiring.
    Rob Ryan came up under Belichick, so I think his style and Rex's are different. Point 3 scares me for sure (see the ad nauseum discussions on Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan). I like Pettine too, but I do think Rex will have his fingerprints all over the defense (he'll be calling the defensive plays, IIRC). I like his energy and the Raven's system is excellent, but it does remain to be seen who was the source of its success.

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