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Thread: Lawsuit against PSL's allowed to continue

  1. #1
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    Lawsuit against PSL's allowed to continue

    November 21, 2009
    Judge’s Ruling Keeps Alive Lawsuit Over Seat Licenses
    By KEN BELSON
    From a sports fan’s perspective, private seat licenses to buy season tickets are about as popular as a root canal. Fans know they need to pay for the licenses to get season tickets, but they grimace at the thought of handing over thousands of dollars to the team.

    Giants and Jets fans are facing this problem now. The teams, which are finishing their $1.6 billion stadium in the Meadowlands that will open next season, have been trying to convince season-ticket holders and other fans to buy P.S.L.’s that cost as much as $30,000 per ticket.

    Some fans have recoiled at the price of the licenses and decided that watching the games at home on television will be a better use of their money. But one longtime Jets and Giants season-ticket holder, Harold Oshinsky, was so angry that he sued both teams, alleging that they violated antitrust and consumer fraud laws, among others, by forcing fans to buy licenses if they wanted season tickets in the new stadium.

    The teams asked the United States District Court in New Jersey to dismiss the class-action suit, which was filed in March. On Nov. 5, the judge, Peter G. Sheridan, dismissed several of Oshinsky’s claims.

    But the judge left a small legal door open. Oshinsky, who has had season tickets to both teams for more than 20 years, claimed he had an implied right to renew his season tickets because the teams kept selling him the tickets to sit in the same seats every year.

    The judge gave him 60 days to show more precisely what, if any, his season-ticket renewal rights were, so it could then be determined whether the rights were breached by the teams.

    “Through discovery, the exact parameters of Plaintiff’s renewal rights (if any) will be defined, and only then can a determination be made as to whether those renewal rights have been breached by the imposition of P.S.L.’s,” the judge wrote.

    Though the case still faces an uphill battle, the judge provided a minor victory for Oshinsky and other angry season-ticket holders in New York and, potentially, in other cities where teams have sold or hope to sell P.S.L.’s.

    Oshinsky’s lawyer, Andrew Freidman of Glancy, Binkow & Goldberg, said he asked the teams for all their communications and supposed disclaimers that they said they sent to season-ticket holders over the years. After reading that material, he may ask to depose team officials, including ticket managers and financial officers.

    “I’m 100 percent sure that the teams assumed this would be thrown out completely,” Friedman said. “The reality is when you’re a monopoly, there’s a lack of respect for your customers and your clients because you can view them as fungible.”

    The Jets said that Oshinsky, who is in his 80s and lives in Florida, never had any formal rights to renew his season tickets, only an expectation that he could renew his seats. The Jets renewed his ticket plan because he was a loyal customer who did nothing to deserve having them revoked.

    But “the fact that we do the same thing year after a year doesn’t make it a contract,” said Louis Solomon, a lawyer at Proskauer & Rose, which represents the Jets. “Discovery will show that there was no such agreement at a set price at a set location.”

    Even if Oshinsky had renewal rights, Solomon continued, the Jets did not breach his rights because the team offered him a chance to buy season tickets in the new stadium. If Oshinsky was unhappy about buying a P.S.L., he could still buy one or more of the 27,000 seats in the stadium’s upper bowl that do not require licenses.

    Representatives from the Giants declined to comment for this article.

    Legal experts said that while Oshinsky’s case was still alive, he was likely to lose in the end.

    “This is a victory in name only,” said Gabriel Feldman, the director of the sports law program at Tulane University. “There is a faint glimmer of hope because the plaintiff can do discovery. But there’s no express right that gives the ticket owner a right to renew the ticket price in perpetuity.”

    But even if Oshinsky loses, he may have taught teams a valuable lesson: Make it explicit in their contracts that season-ticket holders do not have an automatic right to renew their tickets.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/sp...gewanted=print
    This lawsuit has extremely low odds of being successful but discovery should be very interesting.

  2. #2
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    qjf grasping at straws

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    The teams have the fans by the balls and they know it. It won't be until people stop buying tickets that they'll actually care.

    I'll continue to watch on TV.

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    Hm, a guy in his 80s, living in FL, with season tickets to *both* Jets and Giants. This sounds like a typical Giants fan Jets ST holder who has/had a passing interest in the Jets who now whimsically wheels most of his tickets to the MIA, NE, PIT, etc fans that mysteriously end up sitting in your section next to you. Too bad "real" fans can't sue the likes of Oshinsky for polluting their gameday experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Hm, a guy in his 80s, living in FL, with season tickets to *both* Jets and Giants. This sounds like a typical Giants fan Jets ST holder who has/had a passing interest in the Jets who now whimsically wheels most of his tickets to the MIA, NE, PIT, etc fans that mysteriously end up sitting in your section next to you. Too bad "real" fans can't sue the likes of Oshinsky for polluting their gameday experience.
    YEAH!

    Take that Peter!!! You old F&CK!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    qjf grasping at straws
    I'm not grasping at anything. Makes no difference to me. I had enough seniority to get the very best non-psl seats but I didn't want them.

    I just posted this because I thought if might be interesting to some people, but then again other people feel the need to post in every single thread whether it interests them or not. Keep that post count growing.

  7. #7
    JetsFan2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Shift Jet View Post
    Hm, a guy in his 80s, living in FL, with season tickets to *both* Jets and Giants. This sounds like a typical Giants fan Jets ST holder who has/had a passing interest in the Jets who now whimsically wheels most of his tickets to the MIA, NE, PIT, etc fans that mysteriously end up sitting in your section next to you. Too bad "real" fans can't sue the likes of Oshinsky for polluting their gameday experience.
    +1

    Not to mention how much money this guy has spent over the past 20 years on season tickets for both teams. It's obvious that he was probably reselling the tickets for one or both teams, maybe jacking up the prices and scalping them to desperate fans eager to get to a game. Is he complaining about PSL prices because he won't be able to afford the luxury of owning season tickets for two football teams anymore, and thereby unable to rape real football fans on the black market?





    I weep for his misfortune.
    Last edited by JetsFan2012; 11-21-2009 at 04:41 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pauliec View Post
    +1

    Not to mention how much money this guy has spent over the past 20 years on season tickets for both teams. It's obvious that he was probably reselling the tickets for one or both teams, maybe jacking up the prices and scalping them to desperate fans eager to get to a game. Is he complaining about PSL prices because he won't be able to afford the luxury of owning season tickets for two football teams anymore, and thereby unable to rape real football fans on the black market?





    I weep for his misfortune.
    Paulie the suit is not about this one guy. It's a class action suit on behalf of the season ticket holders. Now I don't see much merit to the suit as I find it hard to understand how there is a contract between the team and the ticketholder established here.

    What will be interesting is the discovery process when the lawyers for the class get to ask questions of the teams. We shall see.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    I'm not grasping at anything. Makes no difference to me. I had enough seniority to get the very best non-psl seats but I didn't want them.
    I just posted this because I thought if might be interesting to some people, but then again other people feel the need to post in every single thread whether it interests them or not. Keep that post count growing.


    Great to hear you won't be going to the games next season at the beautiful new stadium. Now if you can just follow it up by not watching or posting on message boards about the team, all will be well at last

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    Great to hear you won't be going to the games next season at the beautiful new stadium. Now if you can just follow it up by not watching or posting on message boards about the team, all will be well at last
    When they make you the boss here I will oblige and never post here again. Until that happens you can get lost. The nerve of someone here just a few months telling long term posters to stop posting.

    Why does this site put up with you?

  11. #11
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    the nerve of anyone questioning you on anything.

    You spent the last four months lying about how the WSS died and now you are bragging about how you are no longer going to go to Jet games, I guess, because they aren't building a stadium in the Mafia body dumping grounds of Corona.

    I'm not the boss of anything, as you well know. Go ahead, keep up the drivel that makes you sound like a bitter old fool.

    I support your right to do so forever

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    Paulie the suit is not about this one guy. It's a class action suit on behalf of the season ticket holders. Now I don't see much merit to the suit as I find it hard to understand how there is a contract between the team and the ticketholder established here.

    What will be interesting is the discovery process when the lawyers for the class get to ask questions of the teams. We shall see.
    I know it's now about this one guy, but unfortunately I could care less about this particular guy and whatever his true reasons are for bringing a class action suit against the teams.

    I don't know what the lawyers could possibly ask. What are you anticipating?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens Jet Fan View Post
    November 21, 2009
    Judge’s Ruling Keeps Alive Lawsuit Over Seat Licenses
    By KEN BELSON
    From a sports fan’s perspective, private seat licenses to buy season tickets are about as popular as a root canal. Fans know they need to pay for the licenses to get season tickets, but they grimace at the thought of handing over thousands of dollars to the team.

    Giants and Jets fans are facing this problem now. The teams, which are finishing their $1.6 billion stadium in the Meadowlands that will open next season, have been trying to convince season-ticket holders and other fans to buy P.S.L.’s that cost as much as $30,000 per ticket.

    Some fans have recoiled at the price of the licenses and decided that watching the games at home on television will be a better use of their money. But one longtime Jets and Giants season-ticket holder, Harold Oshinsky, was so angry that he sued both teams, alleging that they violated antitrust and consumer fraud laws, among others, by forcing fans to buy licenses if they wanted season tickets in the new stadium.

    The teams asked the United States District Court in New Jersey to dismiss the class-action suit, which was filed in March. On Nov. 5, the judge, Peter G. Sheridan, dismissed several of Oshinsky’s claims.

    But the judge left a small legal door open. Oshinsky, who has had season tickets to both teams for more than 20 years, claimed he had an implied right to renew his season tickets because the teams kept selling him the tickets to sit in the same seats every year.

    The judge gave him 60 days to show more precisely what, if any, his season-ticket renewal rights were, so it could then be determined whether the rights were breached by the teams.

    “Through discovery, the exact parameters of Plaintiff’s renewal rights (if any) will be defined, and only then can a determination be made as to whether those renewal rights have been breached by the imposition of P.S.L.’s,” the judge wrote.

    Though the case still faces an uphill battle, the judge provided a minor victory for Oshinsky and other angry season-ticket holders in New York and, potentially, in other cities where teams have sold or hope to sell P.S.L.’s.

    Oshinsky’s lawyer, Andrew Freidman of Glancy, Binkow & Goldberg, said he asked the teams for all their communications and supposed disclaimers that they said they sent to season-ticket holders over the years. After reading that material, he may ask to depose team officials, including ticket managers and financial officers.

    “I’m 100 percent sure that the teams assumed this would be thrown out completely,” Friedman said. “The reality is when you’re a monopoly, there’s a lack of respect for your customers and your clients because you can view them as fungible.”

    The Jets said that Oshinsky, who is in his 80s and lives in Florida, never had any formal rights to renew his season tickets, only an expectation that he could renew his seats. The Jets renewed his ticket plan because he was a loyal customer who did nothing to deserve having them revoked.

    But “the fact that we do the same thing year after a year doesn’t make it a contract,” said Louis Solomon, a lawyer at Proskauer & Rose, which represents the Jets. “Discovery will show that there was no such agreement at a set price at a set location.”

    Even if Oshinsky had renewal rights, Solomon continued, the Jets did not breach his rights because the team offered him a chance to buy season tickets in the new stadium. If Oshinsky was unhappy about buying a P.S.L., he could still buy one or more of the 27,000 seats in the stadium’s upper bowl that do not require licenses.

    Representatives from the Giants declined to comment for this article.

    Legal experts said that while Oshinsky’s case was still alive, he was likely to lose in the end.

    “This is a victory in name only,” said Gabriel Feldman, the director of the sports law program at Tulane University. “There is a faint glimmer of hope because the plaintiff can do discovery. But there’s no express right that gives the ticket owner a right to renew the ticket price in perpetuity.”

    But even if Oshinsky loses, he may have taught teams a valuable lesson: Make it explicit in their contracts that season-ticket holders do not have an automatic right to renew their tickets.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/sp...gewanted=print
    This lawsuit has extremely low odds of being successful but discovery should be very interesting.
    what a joke. This should make the hall of fame of frivolous lawsuits. I'm surprised the UDS District Court is being this patient with the plaintiff.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pauliec View Post
    I know it's now about this one guy, but unfortunately I could care less about this particular guy and whatever his true reasons are for bringing a class action suit against the teams.

    I don't know what the lawyers could possibly ask. What are you anticipating?
    The NYT by publishing the story is praying there's going to be some grey area where the litigant will found to have some vague "right" violated by the teams and he will get some disproportionate reward...tyranny of the minority is their "bag"...

    I sense many folks aren't really content with their decision to go along w/ PSLs or not, the basis of a lawsuit like this to me is that ST holder feeling that if they can't continue to have the premium seats they had for years without paying PSLs that they are being penalized with a Hobson's choice of going upstairs to "lesser" seats or staying home.
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 11-21-2009 at 07:35 PM.

  15. #15
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    This lawsuit is a joke. SHould have been thrown out and eventually will be.

    The lawsuit that has a chance is the one around the Club Seat Auction. That had legitimate grounds. Have not heard about it in awhile. Wonder if the Jets settled it out of court.

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    Haven't heard much about that one either...


    I have heard that coaches club seat prices at the auction declined


    about 140 times from the dearly departed insidejets

  17. #17
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    With what he's paying in legal fees he could have just bought the PSL.

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