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Thread: Is Sanchez bound for greatness?

  1. #1
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    Is Sanchez bound for greatness?

    Some will say it's too soon to say, but here are the 2nd year stats for some of the better known names around the league. Some were back ups for a while, some were thrown into the fire. Almost all performed better in their second year than Sanchez in terms of passer rating, completion percentage and TDs.
    Code:
    Player		GS	Comp	Att	Pct	Yds	Rate	Avg	TD	Int	Sck	SckY	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	FUM	Lost
    Aaron Rodgers	16	350	541	64.7	4434	103.2	8.2	30	7	50	306	58	316	5.4	5	10	4
    Roethlisberger	12	168	268	62.7	2385	98.6	8.9	17	9	23	129	31	69	2.2	3	2	1
    Josh Freeman	15	270	448	60.3	3196	93.6	7.1	23	6	25	173	64	353	5.5	0	6	2
    Matt Schaub	11	251	380	66.1	3043	92.7	8	15	10	23	149	31	68	2.2	2	10	4
    Peyton Manning	16	331	533	62.1	4135	90.7	7.8	26	15	14	116	35	73	2.1	2	6	3
    Tom Brady	16	373	601	62.1	3764	85.7	6.3	28	14	31	190	42	110	2.6	1	11	
    Philip Rivers	16	277	460	60.2	3152	82.4	6.9	21	15	22	163	29	33	1.1	1	11	6
    Matt Ryan	14	263	451	58.3	2916	80.9	6.5	22	14	19	92	30	49	1.6	1	5	2
    Eli Manning	16	294	557	52.8	3762	75.9	6.8	24	17	28	184	29	80	2.8	1	9	2
    Mark Sanchez	15	278	507	54.8	3291	75.3	6.5	17	13	27	171	30	105	3.5	3	9	1
    Drew Brees	11	205	356	57.6	2108	67.5	5.9	11	15	21	178	21	84	4	0	5	3
    Of course there's other issues like wins/losses and receiving talent, but I don't think it looks much better from that angle either.

    Hopefully he'll pull a Drew Brees and start improving in year 3.

  2. #2
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    good troll attempt

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chupa View Post
    good troll attempt
    Nice completely inaccurate way to nudge your post count up by one.

  4. #4
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    Rivers, year 2:

    @NE and @GB and @Den in September...not another bad weather team rest of the way.


    1 09/09 CHI W 14-3 1 1 22 31 71.0 190 6.1 0 1 3 21 73.3 5 -1 -0.2 0 1 1
    2 09/16 @ NE L 14-38 1 1 19 30 63.3 179 6.0 2 2 3 30 74.2 1 6 6.0 0 2 1
    3 09/23 @ GB L 24-31 1 1 27 36 75.0 306 8.5 3 1 2 15 116.2 1 -1 -1.0 0 1 0
    4 09/30 KC L 16-30 1 1 21 42 50.0 211 5.0 0 2 1 11 44.8 -- -- -- -- 1 1
    5 10/07 @ DEN W 41-3 1 1 13 18 72.2 270 15.0 2 0 0 0 151.4 2 -3 -1.5 1 -- --
    6 10/14 OAK W 28-14 1 1 14 21 66.7 156 7.4 0 1 0 0 68.8 2 1 0.5 0 -- --
    7 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
    8 10/28 HOU W 35-10 1 1 7 11 63.6 130 11.8 3 0 1 2 143.9 4 5 1.3 0 -- --
    9 11/04 @ MIN L 17-35 1 1 19 42 45.2 197 4.7 0 1 1 10 49.4 3 5 1.7 0 3 1
    10 11/11 IND W 23-21 1 1 13 24 54.2 104 4.3 0 2 2 18 30.6 1 0 0.0 0 2 1
    11 11/18 @ JAC L 17-24 1 1 22 40 55.0 309 7.7 1 2 0 0 67.6 2 16 8.0 0 -- --
    12 11/25 BAL W 32-14 1 1 25 35 71.4 249 7.1 3 0 0 0 119.8 2 3 1.5 0 -- --
    13 12/02 @ KC W 24-10 1 1 10 21 47.6 157 7.5 1 1 3 18 68.9 2 -2 -1.0 0 -- --
    14 12/09 @ TEN W 23-17 1 1 21 40 52.5 228 5.7 2 2 4 28 65.4 1 2 2.0 0 -- --
    15 12/16 DET W 51-14 1 1 14 21 66.7 142 6.8 1 0 0 0 101.7 -- -- -- -- -- --
    16 12/24 DEN W 23-3 1 1 17 25 68.0 189 7.6 1 0 1 3 103.6 -- -- -- -- -- --
    17 12/30 @ OAK W 30-17 1 1 13 23 56.5 135 5.9 2 0 1 7 102.6 3 2 0.7 0 1 1

    Matt Ryan year 2:

    10 dome games, games in SF, Car, Tampa

    Regular Season Games Passing Rushing Fumbles
    WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
    1 09/13 MIA W 19-7 1 1 22 36 61.1 229 6.4 2 0 2 16 98.0 3 -4 -1.3 0 -- --
    2 09/20 CAR W 28-20 1 1 21 27 77.8 220 8.1 3 1 0 0 122.2 2 3 1.5 0 -- --
    3 09/27 @ NE L 10-26 1 1 17 28 60.7 199 7.1 0 0 0 0 82.3 1 -1 -1.0 0 -- --
    4 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
    5 10/11 @ SF W 45-10 1 1 22 32 68.8 329 10.3 2 1 0 0 110.0 2 3 1.5 1 -- --
    6 10/18 CHI W 21-14 1 1 19 33 57.6 185 5.6 2 2 0 0 68.4 3 8 2.7 0 -- --
    7 10/25 @ DAL L 21-37 1 1 19 35 54.3 198 5.7 2 2 4 24 66.1 1 6 6.0 0 2 1
    8 11/02 @ NO L 27-35 1 1 19 42 45.2 289 6.9 1 3 3 8 46.6 3 9 3.0 0 -- --
    9 11/08 WAS W 31-17 1 1 17 24 70.8 135 5.6 1 1 3 10 81.1 5 6 1.2 0 -- --
    10 11/15 @ CAR L 19-28 1 1 22 41 53.7 224 5.5 1 2 0 0 57.4 2 4 2.0 0 -- --
    11 11/22 @ NYG L 31-34 1 1 26 46 56.5 268 5.8 2 0 2 6 88.0 5 14 2.8 0 1 1
    12 11/29 TB W 20-17 1 1 2 3 66.7 15 5.0 0 0 1 3 78.5 -- -- -- -- -- --
    13 12/06 PHI L 7-34 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
    14 12/13 NO L 23-26 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
    15 12/20 @ NYJ W 10-7 1 1 16 34 47.1 152 4.5 1 0 0 0 69.7 2 -2 -1.0 0 -- --
    16 12/27 BUF W 31-3 1 1 18 35 51.4 250 7.1 3 0 3 16 103.3 -- -- -- -- 2 0
    17 01/03 @ TB W 20-10 1 1 23 35 65.7 223 6.4 2 2 1 9 78.6 1 3 3.0 0 -- --
    TOTAL 14 14 263 451 58.3 2,916 6.5 22 14 19 92 80.9 30 49 1.6 1 5 2


    not saying Sanchez is as good as any of those guys, but you cant really compare quarterbacks purely based on these types of numbers.

  5. #5
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    Being fair. Sanchez has improved alot from year one. He in my mind has shown about what I expected from him. He cut back on int's increased TD'S though I thought he would have had a few more, probably would have if the supporting cast helped him out a little more. He has shown the ability to bring his team back late in games. He despite what many say has shown the ability to play well in cold weather. He did however have his mid season slump. Not unexpected from a 24 year old kid. Overall not bad at all for his seconded year. I have no reason to believe he will not improve further in years three and going forward. Will he ever be an elite QB? Probably not. Good enough to win a championship for a team I have personally rooted for for 30 years? I see no reason why not.

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    I would be one of those to say, "it's too soon." There are other factors to consider - such as career starts in college, offensive philosophy, team success (playing from behind or ahead?), etc. It also makes a huge difference if the player had time to sit the bench before being thrown in.

    That said, there is one conclusion you can draw from this list...Freeman is going to be a monster. The best TD:INT ratio, the most rushing yards, and maybe the strongest arm. There's no way TB could have thought he would be this good this early, first-round pick or not. Gruden left a couple of years too soon.

  7. #7
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    I think his improvement from last year to this year is more important to comparing him with other second year QBs (especially many of those guys who learned from the bench forever -- really, comparing him to Aaron Rodgers is ridiculous).

    Next year will be a big indicator.

    As long as he continues to get better and the Jets continue to win, it's hard to complain. Keep in mind he's still extremely young and has already started more games in the pros than he did in college.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibby View Post
    Will he ever be an elite QB? Probably not. Good enough to win a championship for a team I have personally rooted for for 30 years? I see no reason why not.
    That's my thinking also. He's kind of following an Eli Manning blue print right now.

    There's no reason he can't turn into Drew Brees though. He's similar in size(though allegedly 2 inches taller) and is getting the same Schotty tutelage.

    Hopefully someone has him studying some film on Drew Brees. It would be nice to see him stop trying to throw lasers over the middle only to have them swatted down.

  9. #9
    Too soon.... Another thing, a lot of those QB you put up their 2nd year as a starter was their 4th to 5th year in the NFL, so that isn't a fair comparison. Sitting and learning does make you more prepared when you do start.

    3rd year is a big year, usually the break out years for a QB is in the 3rd to 4th season.


    Big Ben regressed as a starter his 3rd year because he barely threw his first 2 years and all of sudden threw in his 3rd season.


    My guess is Josh Freeman will regress somewhat next season, this year his offense was simplified and didn't have to throw as much. They were doing a great job of developing him, easing him into things. They'll try to expand next year maybe and he'll start throwing more interceptions. Usually what happens.


    I think Sanchez will jump forward as he was asked to throw a lot and was top 5 in downfield attempts. When they simplified the offense Sanchez was completing over 60% of his passes.

    I see Sanchez improving his QB rating and a big reason for that is the completion percentage. Get that around 60% next season. He'll actually be able to work on his accuracy this offseason since he won't be rehabbing from knee surgery. Though he may need shoulder surgery IDK.

    Hopefully Sanchez will throw for 20+ TD next year as well. He would have 20+ TD this year if not for all the dropped balls that would have been 6.

  10. #10
    Ill have something on my site about this after the playoffs end. just a few notes comparing a second year of a Sanchez, who is a true second year player who played significantly as a rookie, to a guy like Aaron Rodgers who sat for 3 years is just not a fair comparison. What you look for in a true 2nd year guy is improvement to their baseline they establish in their rookie season. Sanchez has improved. The question is has it been enough to still feel confident in him or not.

  11. #11
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    Last year I saw Sanchez as a work in progress. This year there have bin a few set backs but he has progressed. Some of the throws he has made were lights out superb. His future is bright.

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    Two years= two playoff appearances. IMO that is a stat worth talking about. In time I think we can expect a SB or two. Sanchez has what it takes to be an excellent performer. He might not have as much arm as some but which one will outwork him? Let the guy do his thing and he will reward us.

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    my biggest concerns are the completion percentage and his decision making. everything else will fall into place. im glad he threw that one pass away on sunday as opposed to taking a sack but do it sooner...don't put yourself in harms way. i do like his mobility, the fact that he escapes pretty well and can throw on the run. hopefully he can continue to stay hot, use the tools he is surrounded with and lead us to the superbowl in his second year. that stat means more than any!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason423 View Post
    Ill have something on my site about this after the playoffs end. just a few notes comparing a second year of a Sanchez, who is a true second year player who played significantly as a rookie, to a guy like Aaron Rodgers who sat for 3 years is just not a fair comparison. What you look for in a true 2nd year guy is improvement to their baseline they establish in their rookie season. Sanchez has improved. The question is has it been enough to still feel confident in him or not.
    I disagree. I think sitting on the bench behind a legendary gunslinger that was the face of the franchise and who was constantly threatening to retire was not a dramatic advantage.

    People talk about the pressure Mark is under, Rodgers had a heaping helping of pressure on his shoulders too.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason423 View Post
    Ill have something on my site about this after the playoffs end. just a few notes comparing a second year of a Sanchez, who is a true second year player who played significantly as a rookie, to a guy like Aaron Rodgers who sat for 3 years is just not a fair comparison. What you look for in a true 2nd year guy is improvement to their baseline they establish in their rookie season. Sanchez has improved. The question is has it been enough to still feel confident in him or not.
    Exactly. Like you said Rodgers sat for three while:

    Schaub barely played his first three (never having more than 70 attempts from 04-06)

    Rivers sat out two years

    Brady sat out one year, plus he has become a HOF QB and I don't think Sanchez will ever attain that status

    Brees sat out one year

    Eli played half a year in his rookie year



    In sum, take out Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, and Brady. Add Flacco since he started right off the bat too. I'd keep Eli on the list since he played enough in year one and I think Sanchez will probably have a career that mirrors Eli -- above average QB with a handful of top ten QB seasons and is good enough to win a SB.

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    Sanchez has had to learn more on the fly than almost any QB out there. Not only the exacution of an NFL offense but the hadeling of a media, the New York media at that. Rogers may not have gotten much out of Bret on the practice field but what he got out of watching him on gameday and with the national media counts a lot in his development. Jets deserve a great deal of props for how they have handeled the devlopmet of Mark, and it speaks volumes as far as him as a person. Jets did their home work on this guy. The best is yet to come!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxc View Post
    Nice completely inaccurate way to nudge your post count up by one.
    You're amusing sanchez has had a bad, or below average second year based purely on stats. If you have watched the kid play this season, you would know that he has made huge strides. He has single handedly won games for the team, and was a darkhorse candidate for MVP after the texans game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex View Post
    In sum, take out Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, and Brady. Add Flacco since he started right off the bat too. I'd keep Eli on the list since he played enough in year one and I think Sanchez will probably have a career that mirrors Eli -- above average QB with a handful of top ten QB seasons and is good enough to win a SB.
    So is there no way to compare Sanchez's 2nd progress to guys that sat on the bench for a while?

    With all the emphasis on the advantage of sitting on the bench for a while it reminds me of the time after the Baltimore game where there were some accusations that Brian Schottenheimer was game planning to protect Sanchez. Those accusations went away, but I think they are still valid.

    Perhaps he has been game planning to protect him and next year he'll loosen the reigns.

    If he isn't gone that is.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxc View Post
    So is there no way to compare Sanchez's 2nd progress to guys that sat on the bench for a while?

    With all the emphasis on the advantage of sitting on the bench for a while it reminds me of the time after the Baltimore game where there were some accusations that Brian Schottenheimer was game planning to protect Sanchez. Those accusations went away, but I think they are still valid.

    Perhaps he has been game planning to protect him and next year he'll loosen the reigns.

    If he isn't gone that is.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chupa View Post
    You're amusing sanchez has had a bad, or below average second year based purely on stats. If you have watched the kid play this season, you would know that he has made huge strides. He has single handedly won games for the team, and was a darkhorse candidate for MVP after the texans game.
    The Texans with the lowest rated pass defense that lost multiple games in the final minutes this year - those Texans?

    Whoever was doing the MVP balloting must have overlooked those factors.

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