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Thread: QB deserves another shot to earn wings

  1. #1

    QB deserves another shot to earn wings

    The quarterback was 25 years old, and he had tasted an awful lot of early success in his career. The prior two years his team had won 23 games and lost just nine, and you could sense momentum taking over — both team and quarterback seemed to possess an almost limitless supply of pixie dust.

    But something happened that season to the 25-year-old quarterback. Defenses caught up to him. His supporting cast wasn’t as good as it needed to be. He threw 26 touchdown passes and 23 interceptions. And a week after the end of a dreadful playoff-free season, the following quote — unattributed, of course — appeared in the local newspaper:

    “If we’re ever going to be good again, he’ll have to be better than this.”

    The quarterback in question? A fellow named Peyton Manning.

    OK, let’s take a break here: Before you jam the old email inbox, this is not to say Mark Sanchez is anywhere near the quarterback Manning was at 25, or would have been this year at 35 if not for the small fact that his neck X-rays look like a Jackson Pollock. Manning is a first-ballot Hall of Famer, Sanchez still is very much a work-in-progress.

    But that doesn’t change the eerie similarities between where Manning was at age 25 and where Sanchez is at 25 — the fact Manning’s 23-9 became 6-10 in ’01 (as Sanchez’s 19-12 became 8-8 this year), the fact Manning’s 26-23 touchdown-to-interception breakdown is awfully close to Sanchez’s 26-18 ratio, the fact that some nameless malcontent was throwing darts in the Indianapolis Star back in January of ’02.

    It doesn’t change this truth: Even the greatest quarterbacks have hiccups. Not every quarterback is the child star Tom Brady was (after a year to do nothing but watch and learn) or Aaron Rodgers (who had three). There is this sense now that Manning appeared one day in the NFL as a fully-formed, fully-finished prodigy, free from the shackles of growing pains.

    Not true.

    Is Sanchez assured a spot among the elite at his position in the years to come? Not by a long shot. There were some valid points raised by the army of the anonymous: Anyone who watched “Hard Knocks” last year can tell Sanchez’s work habits aren’t exactly Type A, that he slouches and pouts when criticized. The Jets have done him no favors by shielding him from one-on-ones with reporters and limiting his access, even after 50 games as a pro.

    You better believe he could use a backup who will push him more than Kellen Clemens and Mark Brunell ever have, one who easily could trot out to start a second half next year if Sanchez had botched a first half. That has to be a team priority, and quick. And even with that, there are no guarantees when it comes to Sanchez.

    But to think he is the first 25-year-old quarterback to regress isn’t just laughable, it’s wrong. Steve Young at 25: eight TDs, 13 INTs. Bart Starr: three TDs, 12 INTs. Jim Plunkett: eight TDs, 25 INTs.

    Joe Namath at 25: 15 TDs, 17 picks — though there was the small matter of the Super Bowl III win.[However, in the previous season, his third year, he did crap the bed with his many mistakes and pick 6's costing the Jets the division title and playoff birth]

    Sanchez may yet have more Richard Todd in him than Namath. We’ll see. And the Jets — even his off-the-record wingmen — better hope it’s more Namath.

    As Peyton’s personal ombudsman put it back in the day: If they’re ever going to be good again, he’ll have to be better than this.
    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/...#ixzz1jFTezA8k

  2. #2
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    Great article...too bad it will most likely be largely ignored, it is too level-headed for most posters on this board.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetFreak89 View Post
    Great article...too bad it will most likely be largely ignored, it is too level-headed for most posters on this board.
    if Mark Sanchez was the son of an all pro and had a brother who is an all pro, or even came from a school that produced decent NFL QBs from time to time, it would be easier to keep the faith.

    He's not the son of Archie brother of Payton.

    He's Mark Sanchez son of a fireman from Mission Viejo.

    In other words there's no compelling reason (blind faith?) to hold out hope. the 4 postseason wins? Schotty was there for that too.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    if Mark Sanchez was the son of an all pro and had a brother who is an all pro, or even came from a school that produced decent NFL QBs from time to time, it would be easier to keep the faith.

    He's not the son of Archie brother of Payton.

    He's Mark Sanchez son of a fireman from Mission Viejo.

    In other words there's no compelling reason (blind faith?) to hold out hope. the 4 postseason wins? Schotty was there for that too.

    I have no idea what you are talking about or the point you are trying to make?

    Namath's third season sucked and he singlehandedly cost his team a plyoff birth. But I guess that doesn't count becuase he was the son of a steelworker?

    Yes, because as we all know every succesful QB in the NFL has relatives who played QB.

    And, BTW, you do know Archie never won anything in the NFL? His saints teams were always pretty bad.

    Your Sanchez hate blinds you from rational thought.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about or the point you are trying to make?

    Namath's third season sucked and he singlehandedly cost his team a plyoff birth. But I guess that doesn't count becuase he was the son of a steelworker?
    Namath threw for 4000 yards that year.

    It's the moments of greatness that I'm looking for.

    Even when Payton manning lead the league in INT as a rookie he had his share of amazing throws.

    My point is there's not alot to hang your hat on with Sanchez.

    What does he do well? What are his strengths?

    He can take a hit and not go on IR. he can suck for 3 quarters and comeback in the 4th. Is that really enough?

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    this is what I have been preaching all season. After 48 games (3 reg seasons), Sanchez and Eli have basically the same numbers of total TDs and TOs (eli has a few more 3 or 4 of both).

    waaaay too early to give up on Sanchez. in the playoffs Sanches has 9 TDs, 3 INTs and like a 92 rating. He can do it. Confidence and better line play. Both are there, the Jets and Sanchez just need to bring em back out

  7. #7
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    We truly don't know if it was all on Sh!tty. Now we will. New coaches new system.
    Regardless of the changes...
    Can Sanchez make the throws?
    Was it frustration of poor play calling and design?
    Does he have the tools (ability) to make the plays?
    Was it poor coaching or just a bad fit?

    These are questions that will be answered soon enough. The Jets want to get back to the ground and pound, but the issue is that Sanchez needs to become a QB that can put this team on his back and make them win.

    Can he do this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JetFreak89 View Post
    Great article...too bad it will most likely be largely ignored, it is too level-headed for most posters on this board.

    ... lol, + 1 ...








    l_j_r

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    Sanchez for sure deserves to be the starter next year. (Unless Manning becomes legitimately available) New OC's thus no more shotty excuse. They simply have to bring in some competition though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    if Mark Sanchez was the son of an all pro and had a brother who is an all pro, or even came from a school that produced decent NFL QBs from time to time, it would be easier to keep the faith.

    He's not the son of Archie brother of Payton.

    He's Mark Sanchez son of a fireman from Mission Viejo.

    In other words there's no compelling reason (blind faith?) to hold out hope. the 4 postseason wins? Schotty was there for that too.
    You can stop right there, he wouldn't be a Jet, because his Rebel doooshbag father would have interjected like an uppity loser that he is, and would have gone somewhere else. Dahoo, Dahoo hoo hoo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Namath threw for 4000 yards that year.

    It's the moments of greatness that I'm looking for.

    Even when Payton manning lead the league in INT as a rookie he had his share of amazing throws.

    My point is there's not alot to hang your hat on with Sanchez.

    What does he do well? What are his strengths?

    He can take a hit and not go on IR. he can suck for 3 quarters and comeback in the 4th. Is that really enough?
    That doesn't mean ANYTHING to you? Incredible.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    Namath threw for 4000 yards that year.

    It's the moments of greatness that I'm looking for.

    Even when Payton manning lead the league in INT as a rookie he had his share of amazing throws.

    My point is there's not alot to hang your hat on with Sanchez.

    What does he do well? What are his strengths?

    He can take a hit and not go on IR. he can suck for 3 quarters and comeback in the 4th. Is that really enough?
    I prefer the Namath that threw for 3147 yards for the 11-3 SB champion Jets to the gunslinger that threw for 4007 for the 8-5-1 2d second place Jets who lost the division to Houston becuase they tied Houston in a game where he threw 3 pick 6's after the Jets had a 17-0 lead. He also contributed to a 1-3 finish with 10 inteceptions in the 3 losses.

    IDK what you are looking for to hang your hat on because you seem to cherry pick great moments in Mannings early career (not sure I recall them specifically and you do not mention them), but Sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs, leads the NFL in 4th qtr comebacks, and did beat Manning in Indy in the playoffs by virtue of a gutsy throw to Edwards which he (not Schotty) called.

    You seem absolutely unwilling to give any weight to anything good Sanchez has done. For that reason you have no credibility.
    Last edited by SONNY WERBLIN; 01-12-2012 at 08:19 PM.

  13. #13
    yeah let's just cut or trade Sanchez, how hard could it be to find a franchise QB anyway?

    Peterson Vs. Pollard: The Search For A Chiefs Franchise Quarterback

    Carl Peterson Franchise Quarterback Search Timeline:

    1989: Hired by Chiefs as the Chiefs new general manager.

    1989 – Drafted Mike Elkins out of Wake Forest in the second round with the 32nd overall pick. Elkins played in one regular season game for the Chiefs. Verdict: Bust

    1989 – Signed dinosaur QB Ron Jaworksi, who was nearly 40 years old. Jaworksi lasted one year with the Chiefs. Verdict: Bust

    1992 – Drafted Matt Blundin out of Virginia in the second round with the 4oth overall pick. Blundin played in two games for the Chiefs, a 100% increase from Elkins. Verdict: Bust Blunder

    1992 – Signed Dave Krieg away from then AFC West rival the Seattle Seahawks. Krieg started one year for the Chiefs. Verdict: Rent-A-QB

    1992 – Traded for aging Niners’ superstar Joe Montana. He started two seasons for the Chiefs, and took them to the AFC Championship, somewhere the Chiefs hadn’t been in decades. Granted, he was playing with Marcus Allen and a world-class defense. Verdict: Successful Rent-A-QB, but still a Rent-A-QB

    1994 - Traded for Niners’ “stud” back-up (a phrase Chiefs fans would grow accustomed to, unfortunately) Steve Bono. Bono played well enough to get one of the best defenses in the history of the game eliminated in the first round of the 1995 playoffs despite the Chiefs owning homefield advantage. He missed the playoffs the next year and was done in K.C. Verdict: Rent-A-QB

    1995 - Signed Rich Gannon and never really gave him a chance to flourish. The Chiefs buried him on the bench behind Bono and Elvis Grbac during his four-year stint with the team. He went on to win the MVP award with the hated Raiders, possibly our most bitter rival. Verdict: Self-Inflicted Bust

    1997 – Signed Elvis Grbac, another “stud” back-up for the Niners. Grbac did make one Pro Bowl during his four years as a starter, but he also never won a playoff game. Watching him play was the visual equivalent of hearing Fran Drescher talk. Verdict: Rent-A-QB

    1998 - Signed Todd Collins. In five years he never started a single game for the Chiefs. Collins went on to have limited success for the Redskins. Verdict: Bust

    1999 – Signed 143-year-old Warren Moon, a fading superstar to put it politely. The only thing Moon was an All-Pro at while in K.C. was night life. Verdict: Bust

    2001 – Traded for Trent Green. He was a six-year starter for the Chiefs who put up flashy numbers, but never managed to win a playoff game despite a supporting cast of Larry Johnson, Priest Holmes, Tony Gonzalez and arguably the league’s best offensive line. Verdict: Successful Rent-A-QB, but still a Rent-A-QB

    2004 - Signed Damon Huard. Huard was the Chiefs’ de facto starter for one season, but he never belonged in that role and it was obvious. He liked getting hit about as much as Peter McNeeley. Verdict: Bust

    2006 - Drafted Brodie Croyle out of Alabama in the third round with the 85th overall pick. Croyle started a bunch of games for the Chiefs, but has never won a regular season game as a pro. Hell, he’s barely lasted an entire game as a pro. Verdict: Bust

    2007 – Signed Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen was never comfortable under center, so offensive coordinator Chan Gailey created a spread offense similar to the one Thigpen played in in college. Thigpen responded by winning one game despite starting most of the season. Verdict: Bust

    Overall Verdict: 20 years, no young franchise QB of the future

    Bernard Pollard Franchise Quarterback Search Timeline:

    2006 – Drafted by the Chiefs.

    2008 – Injures Patriots’ superstar QB Tom Brady, sidelining him for the season. Matt Cassel has a prolonged audition during the rest of the season, and impresses his current and future boss, Scott Pioli, during that process.

    2009 – The Chiefs trade Matt Cassel as a result of his strong play while filling in for Tom Brady, an opportunity that would have likely never presented itself if not for GM Jr. Bernard Pollard. Verdict: Labeled as a franchise QB and future stud by most experts and pundits

    Overall Verdict: Three years, one likely young franchise QB of the future

    Eat your heart out, Carl Peterson. The Bonecrusher is now also the Thronecrusher. Sorry, Jason Whitlock, but if Cassel owes any of his contract to somebody it’s Pollard — not Randy Moss.
    http://arrowheadaddict.com/2009/07/2...e-quarterback/

    BTW the this pattern repeats for well over 70% of the NFL.
    Last edited by SONNY WERBLIN; 01-12-2012 at 08:20 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
    if Mark Sanchez was the son of an all pro and had a brother who is an all pro, or even came from a school that produced decent NFL QBs from time to time, it would be easier to keep the faith.

    He's not the son of Archie brother of Payton.

    He's Mark Sanchez son of a fireman from Mission Viejo.

    In other words there's no compelling reason (blind faith?) to hold out hope. the 4 postseason wins? Schotty was there for that too.
    Big Ben- Miami OH.
    Rivers - NC State.
    Romo - southern Illinios.
    Eli - Ole Miss.
    PEYTON (for the last time not Payton, Jesus Christ) - Tennessee.
    Vick - VA tech.
    Brees - Purdue.
    Rodgers - Cal
    Stafford - Georgia

    You make it seem like certain schools pump out elite NFL QBs. I think Carson Palmer and his 86 career passer rating and 167 TD - 116 INT ratio falls under a decent QB from USC.

    Every point you made was just horrible..We get it, you love the devils advocate role. But when you bring up family and schools, you're just reaching. Give it a rest.
    Last edited by Jet Life; 01-12-2012 at 08:52 PM.

  15. #15
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    I honestly believe Sanchez will be fine. I can't understand the impatience and lack of understanding by the masses. It's easy to **** on Sanchez right now because he's 1. Not giving the media comments to use against him, 2. Some anonymous source is mother ****ing him, 3. The Jets have a big bullseye on them by people who were praying for their demise.

    8-8 is hardly a demise. Sanchez had some good games, and some bad games. It's not that he's terrible, it's that he's inconsistent and doesn't bring that A-game every game. That's what great QBs do.

    The rest of the team faltered as well, not just Sanchez (to include Revis).

    Eli Manning's 3rd season in the NFL:

    301/522, 3,244 yards 24TD/18INT, 77.0 rating.

    Look familiar?

    Drew Brees' 3rd season:

    205/356, 2,108 yards 11TD/15INT, 67.5 rating.

    Aaron Rodgers? Tony Romo? They didn't even play in their 3rd seasons in the NFL.

    Sanchez will be ok, unless the media and the fans run him out of town before he reaches the point where he's a consistent QB.

  16. #16
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    What a deliberately misleading article. Manning had one season with a QB rating in the seventies, his rookie year. Every year since his QB rating has been better than Sanchez's best so far.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanchise View Post
    Big Ben- Miami OH.
    Rivers - NC State.
    Romo - southern Illinios.
    Eli - Ole Miss.
    PEYTON (for the last time not Payton, Jesus Christ) - Tennessee.
    Vick - VA tech.
    Brees - Purdue.
    Rodgers - Cal
    Stafford - Georgia

    You make it seem like certain schools pump out elite NFL QBs. I think Carson Palmer and his 86 career passer rating and 167 TD - 116 INT ratio falls under a decent QB from USC.

    Every point you made was just horrible..
    USC QBs that have played in the NFL:

    Mark Sanchez
    Carson Palmer
    Matt Leinart
    Sean Salisbury
    Rodney Peete
    Pat Haden
    Matt Cassel
    Bill Nelsen
    Pete Beathard
    Vince Evans
    Paul McDonald
    Todd Marinovich
    Rob Johnson
    John David Booty

    No HOF's on that list, but some viable options as a QB.

    The 2 things that stand out to me is that there are no Superbowl winners on this list (that I can recognize - Rob Johnson was a backup who won a ring and didn't play), but Sanchez is the only one to go to 2 AFC Championship games and has come the closest.

  18. #18
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    Not to beat a dead horse but he did stay healthy all year long while being beaten as if the tackles had a deal in place to get him killed. That's not to say he's on his way to being a great QB but lots of QB's have potential that is often killed by injuries. That's one thing to say thats positive about him. Another is the fact that if anyone rewinds the playoff game in NE last year, he made some really great throws, that one in the end zone to Holmes was a throw that only a few in the league has made - it was accurate and had great touch it truly was a thing of beauty.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    I honestly believe Sanchez will be fine. I can't understand the impatience and lack of understanding by the masses. It's easy to **** on Sanchez right now because he's 1. Not giving the media comments to use against him, 2. Some anonymous source is mother ****ing him, 3. The Jets have a big bullseye on them by people who were praying for their demise.

    8-8 is hardly a demise. Sanchez had some good games, and some bad games. It's not that he's terrible, it's that he's inconsistent and doesn't bring that A-game every game. That's what great QBs do.

    The rest of the team faltered as well, not just Sanchez (to include Revis).

    Eli Manning's 3rd season in the NFL:

    301/522, 3,244 yards 24TD/18INT, 77.0 rating.

    Look familiar?

    Drew Brees' 3rd season:

    205/356, 2,108 yards 11TD/15INT, 67.5 rating.

    Aaron Rodgers? Tony Romo? They didn't even play in their 3rd seasons in the NFL.

    Sanchez will be ok, unless the media and the fans run him out of town before he reaches the point where he's a consistent QB.
    +1 Very good post, John. I know that I'll be in his corner, and am looking forward to watch him continue to grow.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by BrickHouse View Post
    Not to beat a dead horse but he did stay healthy all year long while being beaten as if the tackles had a deal in place to get him killed. That's not to say he's on his way to being a great QB but lots of QB's have potential that is often killed by injuries. That's one thing to say thats positive about him. Another is the fact that if anyone rewinds the playoff game in NE last year, he made some really great throws, that one in the end zone to Holmes was a throw that only a few in the league has made - it was accurate and had great touch it truly was a thing of beauty.
    Good point. How many qb's "could" have had success but for repeated imjuries. Toughness and durability is essential to a qb's success.

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