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Thread: Obungler: Illegal Immigration hurts blue-collar Americans

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I am not stereotyping. There are studies that show over half of immigrants households are on welfare. You can Google it. Now that is probably using the same cooked Washington math that your article did but still that is a high number even if you trim it down to reality.

    I do not pay more than 55k in taxes but I would love for someone to show me how I receive more subsidies from the Feds than I pay in taxes. Yes, I use the roads and bridges and I went to public school when I was a kid. I did not build the roads. So Obama is right about that.

    I am not blaming high taxes on immigration. That is just one small piece of the problem. There are much bigger financial burdens to the US than immigrants.
    You personally might not receive more in federal benefits but a typical household with your income is either a net taker or breakeven (the top 20% of tax payers according to the non partisan report are the only group that is not net taker).

    i believe the tax foundation is a conservative organization. 94% of income taxes are paid by the top 20%. And frankly most of that is paid by the top 5%. So, i find it ironic that some of the biggest complainers are folks who aren't even paying a significant portion of the tax burden. But maybe i am stereotyping you.

    http://taxfoundation.org/blog/top-20...t-income-taxes


    If your complaining now and not at the level that pays the majority of taxes i can't imagine what your going to be like when your financially successful and paying a ton of taxes.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    thanks for taking time off from shoveling and overtime to answer the question. Our water heater is 29 years old and the one person i called said not to flush it as it could completely get screwed up.

    i worry about going electric because got knows how LIPA can screw me with the electric bills. what is tankless?

    i think i have an oil fired boiler. that's the thing that heats a house right? is it usually next to the hot water heater in the basement?

    how much does one charge to install a hot water heater again? can you do my house?
    29 years? Yeah. You need to change it, lol. It's been around since Reagan was re-elected.

    Tankless is what it sounds like. No tank. Heats water instantly. If you don't live there permanently, it'll save you money.

    And no. I can't change it. I live 8 hours away. If I could, I'd charge you a grand. But you're probably looking at 2k down there.

    You could do it yourself. It's really easy. Shark bite fittings make it super easy.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    You personally might not receive more in federal benefits but a typical household with your income is either a net taker or breakeven (the top 20% of tax payers according to the non partisan report are the only group that is not net taker).

    i believe the tax foundation is a conservative organization. 94% of income taxes are paid by the top 20%. And frankly most of that is paid by the top 5%. So, i find it ironic that some of the biggest complainers are folks who aren't even paying a significant portion of the tax burden. But maybe i am stereotyping you.

    http://taxfoundation.org/blog/top-20...t-income-taxes


    If your complaining now and not at the level that pays the majority of taxes i can't imagine what your going to be like when your financially successful and paying a ton of taxes.
    You seem to be moving the goalposts. This is an immigration discussion, not a tax discussion. But for the sake of argument I don't think someone needs to be in the top 5% to be able to concern themselves with high taxes just like I don't think someone needs to be living in poverty to concern themselves with the poor.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I just changed the PT valve on my water heater. I feel kinda badass now.
    Nice! You probably saved yourself 200 bucks. Don't ever hesitate to PM me. I get 5 to 8 pm's a month. Advice is always free!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Nice! You probably saved yourself 200 bucks. Don't ever hesitate to PM me. I get 5 to 8 pm's a month. Advice is always free!
    LOL. I can only imagine what you get in your PM.

    And thanks but one of my best buddies is a licensed plumber. He basically walked me through it. Tank is about 7 years old so I am hoping for a few more years.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    29 years? Yeah. You need to change it, lol. It's been around since Reagan was re-elected.

    Tankless is what it sounds like. No tank. Heats water instantly. If you don't live there permanently, it'll save you money.

    And no. I can't change it. I live 8 hours away. If I could, I'd charge you a grand. But you're probably looking at 2k down there.

    You could do it yourself. It's really easy. Shark bite fittings make it super easy.
    i don't know what a hot water heater looks like, highly unlikey i can do it myself.

    i'd let you stay at my house for the week that would be the attraction for you. make a vacation out of it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    i don't know what a hot water heater looks like, highly unlikey i can do it myself.

    i'd let you stay at my house for the week that would be the attraction for you. make a vacation out of it.
    You haven't seen PK's lady. Gonna take a lot to pry him away for a week.

    Where we talking? Hamptons?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You seem to be moving the goalposts. This is an immigration discussion, not a tax discussion. But for the sake of argument I don't think someone needs to be in the top 5% to be able to concern themselves with high taxes just like I don't think someone needs to be living in poverty to concern themselves with the poor.
    not moving the goal posts - you mentioned how easy immigrants had it because of all the benefits taxpayers were providing them. so i just wanted to point out the vast majority of people are takers in the system per the CBO data including some of the loudest complainers.

    if you want to keep it purely immigration discussion that's fine - just don't bring up the whole welfare/taxpayer angle.

    so, outside of your "cost/taxpayer issue" why are you against legal immigration that your grandparents and my parents were allowed to do?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You haven't seen PK's lady. Gonna take a lot to pry him away for a week.

    Where we talking? Hamptons?
    east hampton. we have a house there. we don't use it enough.

    ironically the taxes there are really low.

  10. #30
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    houses are a money pit.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    i don't know what a hot water heater looks like, highly unlikey i can do it myself.

    i'd let you stay at my house for the week that would be the attraction for you. make a vacation out of it.
    Really. You don't know what a water heater looks like?

    Really?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    You haven't seen PK's lady. Gonna take a lot to pry him away for a week.

    Where we talking? Hamptons?
    He's full of poo.

    Oiled fired water heaters are trailer park stuff. I can't remember the last time I replaced one of those dinosaurs.

    Oil? Lmao.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    not moving the goal posts - you mentioned how easy immigrants had it because of all the benefits taxpayers were providing them. so i just wanted to point out the vast majority of people are takers in the system per the CBO data including some of the loudest complainers.

    if you want to keep it purely immigration discussion that's fine - just don't bring up the whole welfare/taxpayer angle.

    so, outside of your "cost/taxpayer issue" why are you against legal immigration that your grandparents and my parents were allowed to do?
    I dont see how the cost is not an issue. It is very relevant. When half the families get welfare that creates a bit of a burden.

    I am not against legal immigration. Literally every person I know that legally immigrated to this country has become a productive member of society. That said, there are people that come here legally that do exploit us and I would like to see us become a bit more exclusive and make sure the people we are letting in can support themselves and not be a drain on the system. We already have too many Americans living in poverty that we should be helping instead.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Really. You don't know what a water heater looks like?

    Really?
    I know now after talking with someone. I am not very handy.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    He's full of poo.

    Oiled fired water heaters are trailer park stuff. I can't remember the last time I replaced one of those dinosaurs.

    Oil? Lmao.
    I am about to list the trailer park house for 1.595mm! We don't use it much and it's worth more than we paid for.

    It's an old house. We don't have a natural gas line into the house. I do have a propane tank for our pool which I guess we could use but I don't like propane as much.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I dont see how the cost is not an issue. It is very relevant. When half the families get welfare that creates a bit of a burden.

    I am not against legal immigration. Literally every person I know that legally immigrated to this country has become a productive member of society. That said, there are people that come here legally that do exploit us and I would like to see us become a bit more exclusive and make sure the people we are letting in can support themselves and not be a drain on the system. We already have too many Americans living in poverty that we should be helping instead.
    See u and I both see very good examples of legal immigration. Both this generation and previous generations. It should continue in my view.

    Getting people who can support themselves is ideal but we also need people to do the jobs Americans don't want to do.

    I haven't seen the studies on legal immigration and welfare. But given that 80 percent of Americans are takers it's not a surprise.

    At the end of the day if you take away the immigration lots of costs go up for every American which I think far outweighs what tiny amount extra in taxes you pay.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    I am about to list the trailer park house for 1.595mm! We don't use it much and it's worth more than we paid for.

    It's an old house. We don't have a natural gas line into the house. I do have a propane tank for our pool which I guess we could use but I don't like propane as much.
    Good for you.

    If you own something worth over a million dollars, I would hope you would be able to identify a water heater in your basement.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Good for you.

    If you own something worth over a million dollars, I would hope you would be able to identify a water heater in your basement.
    Being handy and value of home owner have little correlation.

    I try not to do a single thing in the house. Drives my wife crazy. I have thankfully a great handyman who does a lot of this stuff for us. He's from Mexico and was a former illegal immigrant. Now his kid is in college and the handyman also runs a landscaping business and has a few employees. Perfect American dream story and poster for immigration.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    Being handy and value of home owner have little correlation.

    I try not to do a single thing in the house. Drives my wife crazy. I have thankfully a great handyman who does a lot of this stuff for us. He's from Mexico and was a former illegal immigrant. Now his kid is in college and the handyman also runs a landscaping business and has a few employees. Perfect American dream story and poster for immigration.
    If you drive a car, you should be able to point out where the tires are...

  20. #40
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    The past two administrations have seen the most fundamental, and worst in my view, changes in the relationship between our Government, which supposedly serves us, and the people.

    The Patriot Act under Bush was (and continues to be) a massive invasion and breach of citizen civil liberties. This tool, in the hands of modern Statists (R and D both) can and is being used as a weapon against the citizenry to avoid a whole host of civil rights laws and constitutional protections, all in the name of "the greater good" of protection from a vastly overblown and inflated threat. This power, in real terms, is almost limitless as long as some hype-able threat exists.

    The ACA "Mandate" under Obama, a fundamental transformation of the relationship, for the first time the Government has established and set precedent that it possess the power and authority to force private individuals to buy specific things from other private entities, at it's (the Govenments) sole discretion of what "the greater good" is. This power, in real terms, is almost limitless as long as some "greater good" needs served. The ACA will only be the first "mandate", more are coming.

    And finally, the pending Executive Action on Immigration will set the precedent (already sadly well established) that the Executive, not the Legislative, is who writes and controls Law in the Unites States. Where Nixon was crushed for his attempt to choose not to enforce or spend on duly passed laws (rightfully so), Obama will get away with it, 5 million (more like 30 million) Illegals will get what will amount to full amnesty, now or soon, and Congress will be shown to be powerless to stop it or interfere. Again, a Fundamental shift in the balance of power between branches, with an already Imperial Executive have gained, in the past dozen years, the power to wage War without limit and without approval, to mandate citizens do as they wish, to write or re-write the Law as they see fit, etc.

    I've heard this era described as "Post Constitutional" and I agree with that descriptor. Very little that happens today is approved of by the Constitution except in the most pretzel-logic'd twisted and manipulated ways. The citizen, today, possess as little power in this relationship as he or she ever has, and has the least amount of liberty, meaningful liberty, he or she ever has.

    And sadly, most people either embrace it (Progressives/collectivists/statists) or either don't care (the vast majority of our ignorant and detached citizenry) or are too weak or corrupt or statist themselves to do anything to stop it, and simply wait till they get to control that tasty tasty power (Republicans, statist the lot of them).

    I weep for the future of the individual. Because as I see it, the future for the individual is more and more as a pawn of the State, forced under threat to do whatever the State, and it's leaders, say is best for them, and to give up as much liberty and wealth as the State says they need to, with not a single say or defense in any of it.

    A sad future for a once bright beacon of personal freedoms and individual liberties.

    But hey, at least America won't be called racist anaymore, right?

    smh

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