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Thread: Obungler: Illegal Immigration hurts blue-collar Americans

  1. #1
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    Obungler: Illegal Immigration hurts blue-collar Americans

    wait, WUT!?!? But..but.but...how can this be?

    oh I know - because EXPEDIENCY! and remember - you can't spell POTUS without P-O-S. damn right.
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    President Barack Obama once declared that an influx of illegal immigrants will harm “the wages of blue-collar Americans” and “put strains on an already overburdened safety net.”

    “[T]here’s no denying that many blacks share the same anxieties as many whites about the wave of illegal immigration flooding our Southern border—a sense that what’s happening now is fundamentally different from what has gone on before,” then-Senator Obama wrote in his 2006 autobiography, “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream.”

    ”Not all these fears are irrational,” he wrote.

    “The number of immigrants added to the labor force every year is of a magnitude not seen in this country for over a century,” Obama noted. “If this huge influx of mostly low-skill workers provides some benefits to the economy as a whole—especially by keeping our workforce young, in contrast to an increasingly geriatric Europe and Japan—it also threatens to depress further the wages of blue-collar Americans and put strains on an already overburdened safety net.”

    If these feel like the words of one of Obama’s opponents, it’s because they’re the exact argument the president’s critics have been making as he now rushes to announce a sweeping executive order that would give work permits to millions of illegal immigrants in the country.

    In the passage, Obama also reveals that he personally feels “patriotic resentment” when he sees Mexican flags at immigration rallies.
    “Native-born Americans suspect that it is they, and not the immigrant, who are being forced to adapt” to social changes caused by migration, he said.

    “And if I’m honest with myself, I must admit that I’m not entirely immune to such nativist sentiments,” Obama wrote. “When I see Mexican flags waved at pro-immigration demonstrations, I sometimes feel a flush of patriotic resentment. When I’m forced to use a translator to communicate with the guy fixing my car, I feel a certain frustration.”

    Obama’s frank statements were written in 2006, as he was eying a run for the presidency.

    Those worries are mainstream, according to recent polls. Obama now presides over a very porous southern border, and he’s allowed 130,000 Central American migrants across since October 2013.

    Via executive order, he is also about to provide work permits to at least 3 million illegal immigrants, allowing them to compete against the very Americans — black, white, Latino and Asian — who he once said would be harmed by such a move.

    The new work permits would be in addition to the 600,000 work permits given to younger illegals under the 2012 “Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals” program.

    Roughly 4 million Americans will enter the job market this year.

    Careful observers of Obama’s modern-day immigration rhetoric will note that he does not discuss the impact millions of formerly-illegal immigrants would have on the wages of American workers. Rather, Obama has repeatedly declared, “It’s the right thing to do.”

    Obama has even justified his planned unilateral amnesty as a border control measure.

    “In terms of immigration, I have consistently said that it is my profound preference and interest to see Congress act on a comprehensive immigration reform bill,” he said Nov. 5, at his post-defeat press conference in the White House.

    That bill, he said, “would strengthen our borders; would streamline our legal immigration system so that it works better and we’re attracting the best and the brightest from around the world; and that we give an opportunity for folks who’ve lived here, in many cases, for a very long time, may have kids who are U.S. citizens, but aren’t properly documented.”

    Obama’s plan reportedly would also allow companies to hire up to 500,000 foreign professionals to compete for jobs sought by the roughly 800,000 Americans who will graduate from universities in 2015, often carrying heavy debts, with degrees in medicine, business, science, math, engineering or architecture.

    Back in 2006, Obama dismissed the current guest worker programs as unfair to Americans.

    A 2006 immigration bill “included a guest worker program that would allow two hundred thousand foreign workers to enter the country for temporary employment,” he wrote.

    “The guest worker provision of the bill troubled me,” Obama wrote, “it was essentially a sop to big business, a means for them to employ immigrants without granting them citizenship rights—indeed, a means for business to gain the benefits of outsourcing without having to locate their operations overseas.”

    Obama is already expanding those guest worker programs by at least 100,000 jobs, and he backed the Senate’s 2013 bill that would have boosted the number of guest workers above 1 million each year.

    Under current law, the U.S. accept 1 million immigrants and 650,000 non-agricultural guest workers each year. Many of the guest workers stay for six years.

  2. #2
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    Its called evolving. You should try it some time you racist idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Its called evolving. You should try it some time you racist idiots.
    are you american indian?

    if so, so sorry that others took over your land. if not, i assume your family came here via immigration.

    legal immigration (especially skilled labor) is good in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    are you american indian?

    if so, so sorry that others took over your land. if not, i assume your family came here via immigration.

    legal immigration (especially skilled labor) is good in my opinion.
    Yep. But it is not apples to apples. Today's immigrants have cupcakes and marshmallows compared to what my grandparents had to go through. And that is a major part of the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Yep. But it is not apples to apples. Today's immigrants have cupcakes and marshmallows compared to what my grandparents had to go through. And that is a major part of the problem.
    Lmao. Cupcakes and marshmallows.

    Most illegal immigrants work harder than the average American.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Yep. But it is not apples to apples. Today's immigrants have cupcakes and marshmallows compared to what my grandparents had to go through. And that is a major part of the problem.
    Most immigrants I deal with are pretty darn hard working. I guess your experience is different. But when I look at how hard our nanny and other help work I think they aren't part of the problem. I'd put lazy Americans as bigger problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Lmao. Cupcakes and marshmallows.

    Most illegal immigrants work harder than the average American.
    I doubt many native Americans would do lots of the jobs that immigrants do. Good luck trying to find native Americans to deliver our food or clean our homes or mow our lawns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    I doubt many native Americans would do lots of the jobs that immigrants do. Good luck trying to find native Americans to deliver our food or clean our homes or mow our lawns.
    I have a tribal card and am a plumber.

    That not hard-working enough for you? :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    Most immigrants I deal with are pretty darn hard working. I guess your experience is different. But when I look at how hard our nanny and other help work I think they aren't part of the problem. I'd put lazy Americans as bigger problems.
    There are good and bad in all walks of life. One of the best workers (and smartest) I have ever had working for me is an illegal alien from Columbia. He has since gamed the system to become a citizen and is still a very hard worker and a very good friend. I am very torn on illegal immigration. Put in their shoes I would have to think that I would do anything to make my family's future better. That being said we as Americans also have to protect against an influx of disease and criminals. Even when our borders were basically open the sick were held at Ellis Island. I think the majority of Americans are for immigration even though the media calls out those against illegal immigration as against immigrants.

    The benefit of open legal immigration is that we can screen out criminals and the contagious. Just as with the prospect of legalizing prostitution and drugs legalizing immigration would at least bring all but the criminals above board and into the light. Of course there will be problems with that tactic too but at least we would be more in control and as with drugs and prostitution our prohibition hasn't come close to solving or even reducing the problem, it has just created crime, smuggling and victims along with the other problems known to exist with these issues.

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    Obungler: Illegal Immigration hurts blue-collar Americans

    I was referring to the "benefits" they receive from our federal and state governments. Its never been better to be an immigrant. Legal or illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    I have a tribal card and am a plumber.

    That not hard-working enough for you? :-)
    Still need your advice on what hot water heater to buy. Went to our house this weekend and water is brown. We have oil. Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I was referring to the "benefits" they receive from our federal and state governments. Its never been better to be an immigrant. Legal or illegal.
    Legal immigrants should get all the benefits anyone else should get. Do you agree?

    What majority benefits do u see illegal immigrants getting?

    What dollar amount of your tax bill goes to support these illegals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    There are good and bad in all walks of life. One of the best workers (and smartest) I have ever had working for me is an illegal alien from Columbia. He has since gamed the system to become a citizen and is still a very hard worker and a very good friend. I am very torn on illegal immigration. Put in their shoes I would have to think that I would do anything to make my family's future better. That being said we as Americans also have to protect against an influx of disease and criminals. Even when our borders were basically open the sick were held at Ellis Island. I think the majority of Americans are for immigration even though the media calls out those against illegal immigration as against immigrants.

    The benefit of open legal immigration is that we can screen out criminals and the contagious. Just as with the prospect of legalizing prostitution and drugs legalizing immigration would at least bring all but the criminals above board and into the light. Of course there will be problems with that tactic too but at least we would be more in control and as with drugs and prostitution our prohibition hasn't come close to solving or even reducing the problem, it has just created crime, smuggling and victims along with the other problems known to exist with these issues.
    Our nanny fled her country due to fighting and was granted political asylum here after 5 years. So she was illegal for a few years. So hard working and her salary supports her whole family back home. Compare that to folks living on the dole here for generations.

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    So ddnyjets did u pay more than 57k in federal taxes last year?

    If so your part of the twenty percent that pay more than you get from the federal goverment.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...they-pay-taxes

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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    Legal immigrants should get all the benefits anyone else should get. Do you agree?
    No. Those should be reserved for American citizens.

    What majority benefits do u see illegal immigrants getting?
    Thats a loaded question b.c you used the word majority. Im sure the majority of gov't benefits already go towards American citizens. IMO that should be 100%.

    Don't be naive. There is a reason why all these people come here. They know we are not going to send them home and we will open our coffers to them. House them, feed them, school them, take care of their medical problems and then they go home.

    What dollar amount of your tax bill goes to support these illegals?
    Doesn't matter to me. I worrt about the country as a whole. If you want to get technical, I also pay sales taxes and tolls that go towards immigrants.

    No. American citizens should get the same benefits. Not immigrants. Part of the reason they come here is b.c of what we give them.

    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    So ddnyjets did u pay more than 57k in federal taxes last year?

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...they-pay-taxes
    Washington math confuses me. All I know is that I don't get welfare, Section 8, don't have an Obama phone, dont get food stamps and I am not on Medicaid. And I don't receive a subsidy for my health insurance. Unmarried, no children. Property owner. I find it hard to believe I am getting more from the Feds than I am paying.

    Now if I had three children that were going to school, set my house on fire a couple of times, and had the police come to my house a few times a year I would say I was getting some bang for my buck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    No. Those should be reserved for American citizens.



    Thats a loaded question b.c you used the word majority. Im sure the majority of gov't benefits already go towards American citizens. IMO that should be 100%.

    Don't be naive. There is a reason why all these people come here. They know we are not going to send them home and we will open our coffers to them. House them, feed them, school them, take care of their medical problems and then they go home.



    Doesn't matter to me. I worrt about the country as a whole. If you want to get technical, I also pay sales taxes and tolls that go towards immigrants.

    No. American citizens should get the same benefits. Not immigrants. Part of the reason they come here is b.c of what we give them.



    Washington math confuses me. All I know is that I don't get welfare, Section 8, don't have an Obama phone, dont get food stamps and I am not on Medicaid. And I don't receive a subsidy for my health insurance. Unmarried, no children. Property owner. I find it hard to believe I am getting more from the Feds than I am paying.

    Now if I had three children that were going to school, set my house on fire a couple of times, and had the police come to my house a few times a year I would say I was getting some bang for my buck.
    Legal immigrants pay taxes. They should be provided benefits that all Americans get in my view. Your view appears to want a closed society. You want to turn into Japan? That's a disaster - as the population ages without the influx of younger people we will run into lots of problems.

    I meant to type Major not majority. I think your the naive person with sterotypes. People (like your grandparents) came here for the opportunities. Same reason the new influx of people are coming. I'd argue that these immigrants in aggregate take much less benefits than poor native americans.

    You clearly don't pay that much in taxes if your considering tolls to be a "tax". That's a rounding error and some of that goes to pay for the roads and such.

    I think your last sections tell me that your not paying more than 55k a year in federal taxes. The vast majority of taxes are paid the top 20% of tax payers and really the top 5%. It's not the guys making $50k a year paying $10k a year in taxes. But the frustrations felt by the middle class are due to wages being squeezed and costs going up while at the same time they see people getting welfare benefits, subsidized health care on one end and then the top 5% doing very well due to continued income equality.

    Look, i do agree with you that our federal (and NY state) government is bloated and needs to be trimmed. I just don't think immigration is the cause of this. But there is a lot of room to cut and there is fat from both sides that needs to be trimmed. I am positive i am not getting my money's worth from the taxes i pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    Still need your advice on what hot water heater to buy. Went to our house this weekend and water is brown. We have oil. Thoughts?
    AO Smith. Or switch to electric. Or go tankless. Or use a sidearm tank off of your presumably oil fired boiler.

    Have you tried to flush the water heater out first?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    AO Smith. Or switch to electric. Or go tankless. Or use a sidearm tank off of your presumably oil fired boiler.

    Have you tried to flush the water heater out first?
    thanks for taking time off from shoveling and overtime to answer the question. Our water heater is 29 years old and the one person i called said not to flush it as it could completely get screwed up.

    i worry about going electric because got knows how LIPA can screw me with the electric bills. what is tankless?

    i think i have an oil fired boiler. that's the thing that heats a house right? is it usually next to the hot water heater in the basement?

    how much does one charge to install a hot water heater again? can you do my house?

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    Quote Originally Posted by batman10023 View Post
    Legal immigrants pay taxes. They should be provided benefits that all Americans get in my view. Your view appears to want a closed society. You want to turn into Japan? That's a disaster - as the population ages without the influx of younger people we will run into lots of problems.

    I meant to type Major not majority. I think your the naive person with sterotypes. People (like your grandparents) came here for the opportunities. Same reason the new influx of people are coming. I'd argue that these immigrants in aggregate take much less benefits than poor native americans.

    You clearly don't pay that much in taxes if your considering tolls to be a "tax". That's a rounding error and some of that goes to pay for the roads and such.

    I think your last sections tell me that your not paying more than 55k a year in federal taxes. The vast majority of taxes are paid the top 20% of tax payers and really the top 5%. It's not the guys making $50k a year paying $10k a year in taxes. But the frustrations felt by the middle class are due to wages being squeezed and costs going up while at the same time they see people getting welfare benefits, subsidized health care on one end and then the top 5% doing very well due to continued income equality.

    Look, i do agree with you that our federal (and NY state) government is bloated and needs to be trimmed. I just don't think immigration is the cause of this. But there is a lot of room to cut and there is fat from both sides that needs to be trimmed. I am positive i am not getting my money's worth from the taxes i pay.
    I am not stereotyping. There are studies that show over half of immigrants households are on welfare. You can Google it. Now that is probably using the same cooked Washington math that your article did but still that is a high number even if you trim it down to reality.

    I do not pay more than 55k in taxes but I would love for someone to show me how I receive more subsidies from the Feds than I pay in taxes. Yes, I use the roads and bridges and I went to public school when I was a kid. I did not build the roads. So Obama is right about that.

    I am not blaming high taxes on immigration. That is just one small piece of the problem. There are much bigger financial burdens to the US than immigrants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    AO Smith. Or switch to electric. Or go tankless. Or use a sidearm tank off of your presumably oil fired boiler.

    Have you tried to flush the water heater out first?
    I just changed the PT valve on my water heater. I feel kinda badass now.

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