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Thread: Defense

  1. #1
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    Looking for comments on what type of defense we should play. Do you favor the 4-3 or the 3-4. With the players we have now what defense would fit.
    Comments.

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    Originally posted by Frank Bongi@Sep 29 2003, 07:29 PM
    Looking for comments on what type of defense we should play. Do you favor the 4-3 or the 3-4. With the players we have now what defense would fit.
    Comments.
    Either one, BUT the critical issue is moving Jon ABraham to linebacker where he can TRULY make use of his amazing talent.
    Now he runs himself out of half the plays.Play him off the line and watch him shoot gaps and close holes, becoming an assett against the run instead of a liability.He'd stay healthier there also!You would still blitz him or move him up to rush on occasion and he'd still get double digit sacks!
    He'd play at 255 and run 4.5.If a linebacker was available in the draft who could do that, we'd draft him #1.
    Then Bryan Thomas another star waiting to happen, can use his 6'5 270 lbs and 4.5 speed to do some damage also.
    If you go 3-4 that's O.K. too but I'm not to keen on Thomas as either a 3-4 end or 3-4 backer.
    Abe can play either and of course COwart, Mo, marvin,Hobson, just to name 4 would ALL be better in 3-4 also.They and Abe would be dynamite.
    I'd play Chester at nose tackle with Fergie and play D-rob at one end and Ellis at the other end.
    MAtt Walters would make a nice 3-4 end with his strength and legit 4.8 speed and Reed can play every line position in the 3-4.

  3. #3
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    i like the 3-4...
    this is why...like someone else said...
    we could have chester at dt backed up by ferguson
    the ends could be ellis and robertson and when evans comes back i think he would do decent backing them both up...
    linebackers...
    abe at outside...with cowart and maybe hobson in the inside? i think he could be good playing inside...on outside...im not sure who would be on the other outside, but maybe we could rotate bryan thomas in on plays we need another passrusher...
    defensive backfield...we need a shutdown corner...i think stonehand garnes and mcgraw are ok at least for now and im a fan of donnie...i think he is above average and makes big plays at time.
    i agree with whoever said that beasley needs to go...unless he wants to take a paycut and be a backup...

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    Lefty, couldn't agree with you more. Nice call. Those were pretty much my thoughts too. Just wondering if anybody else was thinking that way.

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    I say play the 3-4 just because thats what Teddy knows and then he can teach these players how to play defense with confidence.

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    Originally posted by persiussa@Sep 29 2003, 08:21 PM
    I say play the 3-4 just because thats what Teddy knows and then he can teach these players how to play defense with confidence.
    I was thinking the exact same thing.

    Teddy knows this D.

    One thing I'm not too fond of is moving Abe to LB after he has been a pro bowler at DE the last 2 yrs. Looks as if Ellis may become one.

    I don't want to mess with those guys. However I believe that we played that style of D in their rookie year with Grogh right and the both got a lot of sacks in limited time (I think Abe had 8.5 and Ellis like 6) so maybe it could work.

    I think I would cut off my left arm to have them throw out that cover Who? defense.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Chase+Sep 29 2003, 08:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chase @ Sep 29 2003, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--persiussa@Sep 29 2003, 08:21 PM
    I say play the 3-4 just because thats what Teddy knows and then he can teach these players how to play defense with confidence.
    I was thinking the exact same thing.

    Teddy knows this D.

    One thing I&#39;m not too fond of is moving Abe to LB after he has been a pro bowler at DE the last 2 yrs. Looks as if Ellis may become one.

    I don&#39;t want to mess with those guys. However I believe that we played that style of D in their rookie year with Grogh right and the both got a lot of sacks in limited time (I think Abe had 8.5 and Ellis like 6) so maybe it could work.

    I think I would cut off my left arm to have them throw out that cover Who? defense. [/b][/quote]
    Pro-bowler means NOTHING&#33;
    It&#39;s a popularity contest.
    Guys vote for Abe because he&#39;s so fast that he kills them occasionally on the pass rush.
    They don&#39;t factor in that he&#39;s blown away on the run game at least half the time.
    Just pushed off the line and the other half he runs himself out of the play.
    He&#39;s also constantly injured killing himself agianst 320 lb tackles.From off the line he&#39;s be Lawrence taylor and make plays all over the field&#33;

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    This is ridiculous, there will be no switch to thee 3-4, and the JETS D-Line is fine.

    Jason Ferguson is not the problem, he has been playing well. There are a lot of players along the D-Line that need a fire under there ass.

    This D-Line at times looks like a dominate, penetrating, havoc creating Defensive front, & then at other times they look like a soft and dismal line.

    Also, I have no Idea why people are sticking up for Sam Cowart, he is playing almost as bad as Mo is. Cowart has been missing tackles, getting killed in coverage, and has no speed.

    The JETS after the offseason have to clean house on the LB corps. All 3 have been horrible.

    The secondary has been playing very well, the safeties are extremely underrated. Garnes is one of the best defensive players on the team and fans give him sh&#33;t. McGraw has been playing very well, he is an all around good free safety.

    The Corners are doing a good job, but when that D-Line gets no pressure they are covering receivers for a very long time, and QBs, even Quincy Carter will tear up a defense if he has alot of time to throw.

    Jamie Henderson, Beasely, and Mickens have been doing very good jobs.

    The Main problem in the defense is the lack of aggression and the Linebackers.

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    It just will not happen at this point of the season.If they have been practiceing it that would be one thing but it would be a step back to change now.

    You would take a guy like Hobson who is learning to play outside shoulder of the TE and make him take on 330lb guards .The DTs we have now are not playing a one gap system worth a &#036;hit you can&#39;t make them two gap.

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    I agree with "my name is" Larry. (an inside joke for you Dr. Demento afficianado&#39;s).

    John Abraham&#39;s your best player on defense. He&#39;s wasting away as a down lineman. Why? &#39;Cos the offense knows where he is, and knows how to (try to) stop him. He gets beat up on that line, too, that&#39;s why he&#39;s always missing games due to injury. And he&#39;s also a big reason for the porous run D (as is Ellis). I&#39;ve been watching this for 4 years now. I remember pointing it out in 2000, and everybody jumped down my throat "He&#39;s a DE and the DE is a pass rusher blah blah blah".

    Ruben Carter is a mistake. I think Ted Cottrell has been star crossed since coming here. There is no way anybody with a straight face is gonna tell me this defense is realizing it&#39;s potential with this coaching staff. Talk about "lack of talent" all you want, that&#39;s a cop out. Rutgers University doesn&#39;t give up 200 yards rushing. C&#39;mon.

    3-4 or 4-3, put Thomas in Abrahams spot and move Abraham to LB&#39;er. You lose nothing on the pass rush, and you improve the run D.

    It&#39;s a no brainer.

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by Jet Moses@Sep 29 2003, 08:39 PM
    I agree with "my name is" Larry. (an inside joke for you Dr. Demento afficianado&#39;s).

    John Abraham&#39;s your best player on defense. He&#39;s wasting away as a down lineman. Why? &#39;Cos the offense knows where he is, and knows how to (try to) stop him. He gets beat up on that line, too, that&#39;s why he&#39;s always missing games due to injury. And he&#39;s also a big reason for the porous run D (as is Ellis). I&#39;ve been watching this for 4 years now. I remember pointing it out in 2000, and everybody jumped down my throat "He&#39;s a DE and the DE is a pass rusher blah blah blah".

    Ruben Carter is a mistake. I think Ted Cottrell has been star crossed since coming here. There is no way anybody with a straight face is gonna tell me this defense is realizing it&#39;s potential with this coaching staff. Talk about "lack of talent" all you want, that&#39;s a cop out. Rutgers University doesn&#39;t give up 200 yards rushing. C&#39;mon.

    3-4 or 4-3, put Thomas in Abrahams spot and move Abraham to LB&#39;er.
    the thing with ABe is he&#39;s so fast and has such a high end motor that i see him running down guys 25 yds down the field.
    Unfortunately, he&#39;s running upfield on every play now and they&#39;re running into his vacated space.
    With 4.45 speed at 255 lbs, he&#39;s plenty agile enopugh to play linebacker, even in pass coverage.Hell, he has to be better than Mo or marvin or OCwart.He&#39;s faster than all of them and NEVER gets tired.He&#39;d make plays allo ver the field and stop al oto f those 8 yd runs before they got into our secondary.He&#39;d shoot gaps, blitz and be a superstar and still get double digit sacks&#33;Not only that, it&#39;s a two fer one deal, because your #1 draft pick, a monster athlete at 270 with 4.5 speed gets on the field too.You have two 4.5 guys out there and 4.9 Mo gets to sit down.it&#39;s a no lose situation.
    Then you play Hobson who was born to be an inside linebacker nad plays faster than his 40 time inside and bingo, yopu&#39;re a much faster defense and you don&#39;t have to waste picks on linebackers, you can find a COrner, Olineman and Receiver in the draft&#33;JMHO&#33;

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by VERMONT JET@Sep 29 2003, 08:36 PM
    It just will not happen at this point of the season.If they have been practiceing it that would be one thing but it would be a step back to change now.

    You would take a guy like Hobson who is learning to play outside shoulder of the TE and make him take on 330lb guards .The DTs we have now are not playing a one gap system worth a &#036;hit you can&#39;t make them two gap.
    only on the jets is this stuff brain surgery.On every other team it&#39;s no big deal, just blocking and tackling.
    Hobson has played football his entire life and was born to be a MIKE linebacker.He&#39;s a very smart kid and could learn in ten minutes&#33;

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by JetsD-Mastermind@Sep 29 2003, 08:36 PM
    ...JETS D-Line is fine.

    Jason Ferguson...has been playing well..

    This D-Line at times looks like a dominate, penetrating, havoc creating Defensive front...


    The secondary has been playing very well...McGraw has been playing very well...
    The Corners are doing a good job...

    Jamie Henderson, Beasely, and Mickens have been doing very good jobs.
    are we talking about the same 0-4 team that can&#39;t stop the run to save itself? outside of ricky williams, are any of the running backs that dominated us players you&#39;d want on your team? they were all middle of the road backs at best...

    that&#39;s what scares me about this year - we&#39;ve lost to 4 average - or worse - teams. at least last year we lost to a dolphins team that was one of the better teams in the league at the beginning of the year, a better pats team than we faced this year, kc and jacksonville, who i think were better teams than what we&#39;ve faced this year (except maybe the phins, but they aren&#39;t nearly as dominant as they were at this time last year).

    and we don&#39;t have a groomed backup waiting in the wings. yikes.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by LeftyLarry@Sep 29 2003, 08:46 PM
    [the thing with ABe is he&#39;s so fast and has such a high end motor that i see him running down guys 25 yds down the field.
    Unfortunately, he&#39;s running upfield on every play now and they&#39;re running into his vacated space.
    Larry, you&#39;re dead nuts on.

    Also, when Abe is finger phvcking grass, Thomas is on the bench. Why? Put Abe at weakside LB&#39;er, and have Thomas hit the 3 point stance in front of him.

    It&#39;s a no brainer. I can&#39;t believe that it&#39;s not even on Herm&#39;s radar.

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    Abraham in the 3-4 could be moved around to prevent doubling him. he cold be a rush outisde LB like LT and wreak havoc, even pick which tackle he wants to attack. Instead, he&#39;ll keep having his speed used against him to let him get way upfield.

    But let&#39;s be honest-this CS are stubborn as hell. They aren&#39;t after 2+ seasons gonna suddenly change their SOP. The inability to recgonize the folly of doing things without considering the alternatives, Plan B, if you would, is at some point gonna cost Edwards his job. And it&#39;s pretty clear he doesn&#39;t recognize that. The test of true intelligence is to be able to see yourself as others see you. And Edwards is so hellbent on proving that his Cover 2 can work he can&#39;t see anything else.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by Jet Moses+Sep 29 2003, 09:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jet Moses @ Sep 29 2003, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--LeftyLarry@Sep 29 2003, 08:46 PM
    [the thing with ABe is he&#39;s so fast and has such a high end motor that i see him running down guys 25 yds down the field.
    Unfortunately, he&#39;s running upfield on every play now and they&#39;re running into his vacated space.
    Larry, you&#39;re dead nuts on.

    Also, when Abe is finger phvcking grass, Thomas is on the bench. Why? Put Abe at weakside LB&#39;er, and have Thomas hit the 3 point stance in front of him.

    It&#39;s a no brainer. I can&#39;t believe that it&#39;s not even on Herm&#39;s radar. [/b][/quote]
    HE&#39;S CLUELESS&#33;
    THINKS MOVING ABE TO d-END AND HAVING HIM MAKE ALL-PRO IS HIS GREATEST coaching ACHIEVMENT&#33;lmao&#33;

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    The primary responsibility of an NFL coaching staff is to put their 11 best players on the field, every down.

    Herm doesn&#39;t do that. It gets in the way of Dungy ball.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by LeftyLarry@Sep 29 2003, 09:23 PM
    [HE&#39;S CLUELESS&#33;
    THINKS MOVING ABE TO d-END AND HAVING HIM MAKE ALL-PRO IS HIS GREATEST coaching ACHIEVMENT&#33;lmao&#33;
    Let&#39;s be fair-

    It was Al Groh who initially converted John Abraham from LB&#39;er to DE.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by Bugg@Sep 29 2003, 09:20 PM
    Abraham in the 3-4 could be moved around to prevent doubling him. he cold be a rush outisde LB like LT and wreak havoc, even pick which tackle he wants to attack. Instead, he&#39;ll keep having his speed used against him to let him get way upfield.

    Exactly. That&#39;s why you take somebody expendable like Thomas or Walters, have them pass rush (something that they are capable of doing) and on running plays, let them take themselves out of the play- NOT ABraham.

    It&#39;s such a no brainer. Abraham is like Pat Swilling. My God, that guy was a tremendous LB&#39;er. But no, we&#39;ll just waste him away.

    3 years and counting...

  20. #20
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    Playing a 3-4 with this team is a stupid idea,you need good fast linebackers to play it and we don&#39;t have them,as a matter of fact you need four of them and we don&#39;t have one. Also someone already said the D-line is not the problem and they are right. It&#39;s the line backers how many times do we have a team third and eight and they convert with a nine yard pass after beating a linebacker or the LB comes on a blitz and is one step awayfrom stopping for a loss only tohave it run where the LB was for a huge gain. One more thing If we want to ruin another player then lets take the suggestion and put Dwayne out on the end you can&#39;t draft a player thet early and then change his possition,plus he is about 350 lbs how can you expect him to chase down a running back. awful lot of bad talk about a D-line that has five first round picks on it .

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