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Thread: Does the B.Thomas pick...

  1. #1
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    The whole D-End contract situation bears watching in the next 8 months. Ellis is obviously playing himself into a big contract. The coaching staff loves him, he is our best End versus the run and he is displaying big ime pass rushing ability. I think we have to make an effort to resign him. Can we afford both him and Abe?? Abe has been a pro bowler and our best defender for the last 3 seasons?? But he is more of a pure pass rusher. Teams certainly need that but to me, Ellis is the more complete player.

    Does Bryan Tomas' presence impact our Abe negotiations. We have a 1st round edge rusher waiting in the wings here. Initially, Thomas was probably penciled as Eliss' replacement. Could it be Abe??

  2. #2
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    The B Thomas pick was made because they thought Ellis was a bust and they wanted to look they had some foresight. Ellis may be the best DE in all of ffotball right now (yes Strahan, yes Peppers) and there is no way they make the BT pick if they had any idea that Ellis had this kind of performance in him. To be fair, though, who knew?

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    Bryan Thomas isnt very good......you can say whatever you want. He just isnt that good.

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    Originally posted by Matt39@Oct 14 2003, 01:22 PM
    Bryan Thomas isnt very good......you can say whatever you want. He just isnt that good.
    Can we afford paying big time bucks to Abe and Ellis, especially when we have a 1st round end sitting there?? This will be a very difficult decision for Bradway. Although noone knew about Ellis at the time they picked Thomas, Mgt has to realize a lot of the uncertainty was their own fault. Ellis was solid his rookie year and took a step back b/c he bulked to 300 lbs. Yes, he took a bit long to get back to his form but still, I put a lot of blame on Edwards.

    Overall, this isn't the worst problem to have!

  5. #5
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    it's highly debatable that BT was a first round end in the first place. We could have done so uch better with napeleon harris at LB right now.

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    Bryon Thomas hasn't done ANYTHING in two years..He made two plays in New England and you guys want to trade Abe and let Thomas play!!
    He's a bust..

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by bman@Oct 14 2003, 01:41 PM
    Bryon Thomas hasn't done ANYTHING in two years..He made two plays in New England and you guys want to trade Abe and let Thomas play!!
    He's a bust..
    bman....I am being realistic here. To resign Ellis, Abe and penny will be a very tall task. I hope it happens but think it will be difficult. One of the reasons we drafted a D-End was to be the eventual successor. It was always thought to be ABe. Recently, it is more of a debate!! I think its too earlyto call Thomas a bust. People are so quick to call guys busts. he hasn't played that much b/c he happens to have 2 top notch ends in from of him. He had problems last year and I am willing to give him a pass. This year he has shown flashes. Is he a star?? of course not but with his talent, he has to be considered in the decision process.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by bman@Oct 14 2003, 01:41 PM
    Bryon Thomas hasn't done ANYTHING in two years..He made two plays in New England and you guys want to trade Abe and let Thomas play!!
    He's a bust..
    You can't call a guy who has hardly seen any reps in his 1 & !/4 seasons a bust. DR has already played more then Thomas has since he's been a pro. A lot more.

  9. #9
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    BT made an interesting point in his own defense last week in the post, this is not the exact words for all of you nit pickers, but he said it is difficult to show what you can do playing hid Abe and Ellis. I this his exact words were something like “How can anyone judge what I can do when I only play one or two snaps a game?”

    This is not a BT is an all-pro post, but it does warrant consideration. Especially the way many of you go to bat for moss when he has been her a year longer, taken higher in the draft and is only impacting special teams!!!

    Lets give him a chance…

  10. #10
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    I think Thomas or Abe should be moved to WLB. I know Abe played LB in college and under Grohs 3-4. I think either of them would be better suited at LB. We need speed there, the question is are either of them capable of playing LB in the 4-3.

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    I also am now wondering about BT.

    He played well sunday... and if you want to know what an Abe-less defense looks like, well you saw it a few days ago. Not too shabby....

    One thing I didnt like about BT: It seemed , even in the beginning of the game, that he wasnt playing till the whistle blew. If a runner ran around the other side and was a few yards gone, I was watching BT and he tended to slow down or just give a half assed jog towards the action. PLAY HARD TILL THE WHISTLE BLOWS YOU FREAK!!!

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    I don't believe in trading proven stars for draft picks..We struck gold by trading keyshawn (abe/penn)..but we still haven't even replaced him..You hope to get a star from the draft..we got one in ellis/abe/penn...you must sign them..if it means getting starting lb's from rd's 2-5..so be it. sign your star players.

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    bMAN NOBODY DOESNT WANT TO SIGN HIM.....oopps....its a matter of the salary cap and IF we can keep him

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    Originally posted by Matt39@Oct 14 2003, 01:22 PM
    Bryan Thomas isnt very good......you can say whatever you want. He just isnt that good.
    Your dead wrong saying that. I had an awesome view of him from the endzone last week and while he did not get in on the bonanza of sacks, he was stout against the run. And in fact that has been his knock even when he was drafted, that he couldn't defend the run. Furthermore, John Abraham is HORRIBLE against the run. Thomas would consistently stand up his blocker, wait for the play to develop, shed the blocker and get to the play. He was causing Henry fits when they tried to run towards him. Sometimes great defensive play doesn't show up in the #'s.

    Secondly, to answer the original question, Thomas affects Abe's contract immensely. I believe he was drafted specifically to replace Ellis. But as this year progresses, it might be in the teams interest to consider replacing Abe instead. Here's why:

    This team hs many meeds. Not just 1, MANY. We need a WR, LB, Safety, Lineman, CB's. Now we currently have 5 key contracts coming up in the near future. Pennington, Jordan, Abraham, Ellis, and McKenzie. One of those 5 guys will have to be sacrificed to get players to fill other positions. So let's analyze who it would be.

    Pennington-obviously not.
    Jordan-we need his youth for when Martin retires. No way he gets sacrificed.
    McKenzie-He is the only solid young guy on our line. He won't go anywhere.
    Ellis or Abraham-We most likely will have to pick the lesser of 2 evils here. It was a no brainer that it would be Ellis that would go before this year but he has been playing lights out. Which leaves Abraham. With B Thomas in the wings, we could afford to lose one of our current DE's if it is what is needed to allow this team to get a lights out LB, WR or CB.

    I would hate to see Abe go just as much as anyone here, but it might be the best thing overall gfor our future team. It MIGHT. Time will tell this season.

  15. #15
    Originally posted by TomShane@Oct 14 2003, 01:19 PM
    The B Thomas pick was made because they thought Ellis was a bust and they wanted to look they had some foresight. Ellis may be the best DE in all of ffotball right now (yes Strahan, yes Peppers) and there is no way they make the BT pick if they had any idea that Ellis had this kind of performance in him. To be fair, though, who knew?
    If you recall they asked Ellis to put on some weight and experimented with him at Eagle tackle after a promising rookie season at defensive end. So spare me the who knew bull****. Don't be surprised if one or both of those guys decide to play in Dallas next year. Chalk another one up for Jerry Bradway and his Three Stooges.

  16. #16
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    Considering they are both under contract next year, I see your scenario pretty unlikely!!

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by outsider+Oct 14 2003, 03:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (outsider @ Oct 14 2003, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TomShane@Oct 14 2003, 01:19 PM
    The B Thomas pick was made because they thought Ellis was a bust and they wanted to look they had some foresight. Ellis may be the best DE in all of ffotball right now (yes Strahan, yes Peppers) and there is no way they make the BT pick if they had any idea that Ellis had this kind of performance in him. To be fair, though, who knew?
    If you recall they asked Ellis to put on some weight and experimented with him at Eagle tackle after a promising rookie season at defensive end. So spare me the who knew bull****. Don&#39;t be surprised if one or both of those guys decide to play in Dallas next year. Chalk another one up for Jerry Bradway and his Three Stooges. [/b][/quote]
    First off, we all know the coaching satff asked him to put some weight on nd try DT. We had crap at DT and quite frankly Ellis was the only guy with the size to give it a shot. It failed. Move on. And before you start with your ridiculous Jerry Bradway & Stooges again, try reading the post above your last one and see why it may be NECESSARY to do something like this. And lastly, read up on the topic about language.

  18. #18
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    Hate to break it to you guys but no matter how you slice it. Abe is a goner. Set yourself up for it now
    so you don&#39;t flip out in March.
    The DUI was the icing on the cake. The cake is his lack of durability.

  19. #19
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    I think Abe is better suited fo a 3-4 outside LBer in the Joey Porter , LT mode. He cannot be a 4-3 backer. His role is getting to the QB. I do feel he can eventually be a Simeon Rice type DE in a 4-3 but you are right, durability is a big fator.

    As Boozer alluded too, it will be very difficult to retain ALL these guys that are coming up in the next 2 years. Penny, Kareem and one of the Ends I&#39;d say are pretty certain. Lamont is still a ? and I think the other end is a potential goner. At this point, it looks like it may be Abe&#33;

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by LesterLyles@Oct 14 2003, 03:51 PM


    As Boozer alluded too, it will be very difficult to retain ALL these guys that are coming up in the next 2 years. Penny, Kareem and one of the Ends I&#39;d say are pretty certain. Lamont is still a ? and I think the other end is a potential goner. At this point, it looks like it may be Abe&#33;
    Thank you. That was all I am saying. As the next couple years go by we will have some tough decisions to make on contracts. Unfortunately, one of those 5 guys is likely to be gone. And Abe, as good as he is, might be the one that hurts the team the least to let go.

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