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Thread: personal seat licensing

  1. #1
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    After scanning a few threads about the potential new stadium, I thought I'd add a few thoughts. I can't say I'm an expert on seat licenses, since here in NE we have an owner who was a season ticket holder, who sat on aluminum benches for a decade, and knew first hand how onerous PSLs can be.

    The first question which came to mind is how much those PSLs were going to be. I saw numbers as low as $1500, and as high as $15,000. I just wanted to give Jet fans a better idea of what they should expect.

    Based on what I've read, and feel free to correct me. The entire project is going to cost $1.4 Billion. The stadium itself is going to run about $800MM. For the sake of this post, lets assume those figures are correct (again feel free to adjust up or down if those numbers are wrong). Finally I think I read where the cost to the Jets is going to be $600MM (which is a sweet deal for the Jets and a bad deal for the city)

    As its been mention in other posts, the purpose of PSLs is to raise instant capital for the owners. The key words here are "for the owner". Also understand that most people of Johnson's wealth don't use their own money very often. (the Krafts being the exception that proves the rule) They use OPM (other people's money). In other words their existing wealth allows them to leverage bank, investors, VC, etc money instead of dipping into their own pockets. So ultimately the cost of the PSLs are going to be used to finance the Jets end of the stadium costs, minus a few million in PR money from Woody.

    So if we are being generous and Woody is going to put together $100MM in bank financings as his good faith money, the remainder will be borne by the season ticket holders. The rest is easy. Just divide 75,000 by $500, 000, 000 and you will come out with the average cost of the PSLs. THat cost to those without immediate use of a calculator (and rounded off to an easily rememebered number) $6,500/seat

    Now some seats will be less and some more, but the mean price WILL BE around that number.

    THe bad news is, if you own 4 seats, you will be asked to come up with $26, 000 + the cost of your tickets if you are going to be allowed to keep them.

    The good news is, if you take out a second mortgage for that $26,000 it will only cost you about $250/month to finance it over 20 years.

    QUESTIONS I'D LIKE ANSWERS TO:

    If you own the PSL, do you control that seat for non-football activities? In other words, does the stadium authority have to get your permission to sell your seat for a concert, etc? or is your PSL good only for the 8 football games each year?

    Will you be force to buy the preseason games at full price with your ticket package? (Unfortunately even the estimable Mr Kraft, enforces this onerous tax on his fans).

  2. #2
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    i dont know anything about the psl but the price of the whole stadium will be2.8 bill ( jets are paying 800mm) thats all i know

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    Originally posted by spjets@Mar 25 2004, 01:38 PM
    i dont know anything about the psl but the price of the whole stadium will be2.8 bill ( jets are paying 800mm) thats all i know
    Well if those number are correct, just raise my figure UPWARD another 25% to around $8,000 per seat. OUCH!

  4. #4
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    what annoys me about the PSLs is that Jay Cross & Woddy have not even harped on that subject yet - they just keep show casing there new project and how great it will be - but not saying how much PSLs will be

  5. #5
    I am on the waiting list for Jets season tickets...there was no mention of PSL when we were asked if we wanted to remain on the list for a yearly fee.

    My question is, are you sure there will be PSL fees for this new stadium or are we assuming that? Thanks in advance.

  6. #6
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    from what i can make of it - it has never formally been said - but with the amount of $$$ needed to make this stadium profitable the PSLs are almost a given -

  7. #7
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    Anyone know where PSL's originated?

    What person or team came up with the idea?

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by PatsFanTX@Mar 25 2004, 10:09 AM
    Anyone know where PSL's originated?

    What person or team came up with the idea?
    Satan. Or perhaps Dan Snyder.

  9. #9
    From the Star-Ledger: Link

    Generating money from each of those streams works like this:


    Luxury suites : The New York area boasts the largest concentration of major corporations in the country --if not the world -- and the Jets are betting as many as 200 to 300 of them will want to shell out as much as $250,000 each year to own a luxury box at the stadium.

    Washington's FedEx Field has more than 300 suites, and Johnson could collect more than $50 million each year on suite sales.


    Personal seat licenses : Fans are likely to have to purchase a "license" for the right to buy the better seats in the stadium. The average price for those seat licenses is about $1,000.

    But experts say a New York stadium could fetch double that for seats in at least half the stadium, allowing Johnson to raise roughly $75 million. At Philadelphia's Lincoln Financial Field, 29,000 fans paid $1,530 to $3,145 for seat license.


    Tickets : One rule of sports-stadium construction is that tickets in a new facility rise roughly 10 to 20 percent. The average price for a Jets ticket last season was $62.20, fifth-highest in the league.


    Naming rights : Houston's Reliant Stadium remains the industry standard with a 30-year deal worth $300 million. The deal was struck at the height of the economy, but a major stadium and convention center in the heart of New York City would certainly command top dollar.

  10. #10
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    I have a question on these PSL's. If I buy 2 season tickets and pay the PSL what does that provide me? Are the PSL's a one time fee? When I pay the PSL do I have rights to those seats where I can sell them along with the tickets to someone in the future? Or when I give up the tickets, do the Jets get another PSL from a new buyer?

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by mrcoops+Mar 25 2004, 10:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mrcoops @ Mar 25 2004, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--PatsFanTX@Mar 25 2004, 10:09 AM
    Anyone know where PSL&#39;s originated?

    What person or team came up with the idea?
    Satan. Or perhaps Dan Snyder. [/b][/quote]
    they are one

  12. #12
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    The first I ever heard of PSLs was, I believe, when the Cardinals moved out to Arizona in 1988 (?) Don&#39;t know if they were the first, though. Still boggles my mind how fans put up with this highway robbery.

  13. #13
    Originally posted by djaparz@Mar 25 2004, 10:44 AM
    what annoys me about the PSLs is that Jay Cross & Woddy have not even harped on that subject yet - they just keep show casing there new project and how great it will be - but not saying how much PSLs will be
    VERY true...

    And a bit scary.

  14. #14
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    Everyone here can moan and groan about the PSL&#39;s but doing it here isn&#39;t getting yourself heard......you have got to start sending letters to Woody and Jay Cross. Not that they would even take the time to open the letter and respond because it&#39;s pretty obvious they aren&#39;t taking the season ticket holders in to consideration but at least you will feel better thinking you voiced your opinion.

  15. #15
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    I found some answers to my own questions on PSL&#39;s. This is from the Panthers website.

    A PSL (Permanent Seat License) entitles an individual or company the perpetual right to purchase specific seats, year after year, at Bank of America Stadium. There is an initial one-time fee for the PSL, which varies in price depending on the area of the stadium.

    Ownership of a PSL offers you the ability to purchase season tickets in the same location year after year. There are no additional fees after you buy the PSL other than purchasing your season tickets.

    Enjoy a lifetime of NFL entertainment. A limited number of PSL&#39;s in the original stadium seating sections remain. Don&#39;t let the clock run out. Take advantage of this incredible opportunity to get into the game.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by PatsFanTX@Mar 25 2004, 10:09 AM
    Anyone know where PSL&#39;s originated?

    What person or team came up with the idea?
    somebody tied to carolina, he&#39;s consulted on many of the others (i think that was in one of greenwave&#39;s links from the other thread).

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by mudcat21@Mar 25 2004, 10:59 AM
    I found some answers to my own questions on PSL&#39;s. This is from the Panthers website.

    A PSL (Permanent Seat License) entitles an individual or company the perpetual right to purchase specific seats, year after year, at Bank of America Stadium. There is an initial one-time fee for the PSL, which varies in price depending on the area of the stadium.

    Ownership of a PSL offers you the ability to purchase season tickets in the same location year after year. There are no additional fees after you buy the PSL other than purchasing your season tickets.

    Enjoy a lifetime of NFL entertainment. A limited number of PSL&#39;s in the original stadium seating sections remain. Don&#39;t let the clock run out. Take advantage of this incredible opportunity to get into the game.
    ok right now we pay the season ticket fee and we get the same seats every year - now they put a new stadium and I have to pay a set fee up front for the same right???

    SCREWED AGAIN&#33;&#33;&#33;

  18. #18
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    The NBA&#39;s Phoenix Suns in 1987 started the PSL ball rolling.

    That was followed by the Phoenix Cardinals in 1988 as the NFL&#39;s 1st PSL.

    In 1994, The Oakland Raiders put their 2 cents in with the NFL&#39;s 1st 10 year limited PSl.

    It is a way for teams to get "QUICK REVENUE" in order to pay for some of the INITIAL costs of a new stadium. Though the team will still make back the funds in the rental fees to NON-NFL related activities, they still seek the QUICK REVENUE well in advance.

    As for what the PSL provides. It is a contractual agreement between the NFL team & the PSL owner. It allows you to purchase an entire year&#39;s season ticket plan (10 games) for each PSL purchased. It is only for those games that the PSL is good for. It does not guarantee tickets for any other event, like that of a Stadium Club Box.

    Though you can not get a refund from the team you purchased the PSL from (I had to reword this in order to keep from being misinterpreted) you can transfer the PSL to someone else. However, you still must contact the team in order to pay a transfer fee.

    There is more to this license. Not pay for season tickets at any time, you PERMINANTLY lose the PSL. Not inform the team & pay the transfer fee, you & the person or persons you transfer the PSL to will lose the PSL.

    Also, though the PSL can be percieved as an investment, many PSL owners have not been able to make back the money of the initial investment in the re-sale/transfer of these PSL&#39;s.

    As for the cost to the NEW JETS STADIUM. The Arizona Diamondbacks have estimated that the highest PSL for their new stadium could be as high as &#036;15,000.00

    See Link:D-Backs seat licenses may run &#036;15,000 - The Arizona Republic

    It&#39;s gonna be an interesting year...

  19. #19
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    i just read something where a guy in cinci was organizinhg a protest, trying to get 10,000 people that shelled for psl&#39;s to stop payment, thinking that would hurt them enough to revisit... i doubt it, even in cinci i&#39;m sure that just gives 10,000 businesses psl&#39;s, but it made me curious - what if i buck up for the psl, and, say through injuries or bad FO moves, or whatever, i decide they&#39;re not going to be competitive the next year. could i decide not to take the seats for that year, not pay for them, and still retain the rights to them? i wonder if the jets would be out the &#036;4000, or could they resell them as single-game tixx? or could they rescind my PSL? just curious, if it&#39;s 1 or 2, then there is some small benefit to the fan holding a PSL, you could opt out of a season and not have to try to re-sell them, particularly if they suck...

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by BaumerJet@Mar 25 2004, 11:36 AM
    There is more to this license. Not pay for season tickets at any time, you PERMINANTLY lose the PSL. Not inform the team & pay the transfer fee, you & the person or persons you transfer the PSL to will lose the PSL.

    Also, though the PSL can be percieved as an investment, many PSL owners have not been able to make back the money of the initial investment in the re-sale/transfer of these PSL&#39;s.
    where is this info from? link?

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