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Thread: The great myth of the New York Jets Offense.

  1. #1
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    The myths surrounding the New York Jets offense seems to go along the following lines: "Paul Hackett can design a brilliant Offense, but he can't call a good game". Also, we see "Chad doesn't have the arm strength to make the throws" and "Santana Moss doesnt like contact...we need a BIG WR...we need a pass catching TE".

    Well, yes the Jets could use a true threat at TE, and sure, I'd love to see a Drew Bennett/Mike WIlliams type opposite McCareins with Moss in the slot and Cotchery/Carter rounding things out, and while I do now believe that Pennington is nothing but a "J.A.G.", those arent the problems.

    The Problem?

    The entire design of the Offense SUCKS. PERIOD. WATCH the Offense, even when it does execute...even when doing well against a decent but not great D, Chad is FORCED to make PERFECT, PINPOINT throws. Now watch the Pats O. s**t, watch Any other top 15 Offense. Notice that routes in the passing game are designed for one to take pressure off another? That way, even if one or even 2 routes are doubled, someone is usually able to get free without having to check down to the RB or FB.

    Notice how at times against the better Defenses, everything looks so congested? It almost seems that the D is playing with 14 guys on the field. Thats because the offense is COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE and relies ENTIRELY on the QB being COMPLETELY PERFECT. Lets look at something else...Hackett REFUSES to switch up things as far as formations go. How often do we see 4-5 Wide Receivers on the field at once? The Hackett Offense does NOT put pressure on the Defense, it puts it all squarely on the Offense to not only execute, but execute PERFECTLY.

    How many other teams in the league not ony refuse to utilize the SHotgun, but adamantly refuse to even CONSIDER using it to switch up Defenses.

    How about the running game, as good as its been. Draw...Draw...Draw. Everyone knows its coming, but why not throw in some counters, traps, TOSS SWEEPS for Gods Sake. If everyone in the stadium KNOWS whats coming based on the formation, why not throw in a wrinkle or two? Yet we never see much variation in the running attack, and as strange as it sounds, when something seems to work to our strengths (that toss play with 66 & 68 out front), it seems to DISAPPEAR. WTF? I'm sorry, but as great a season as Curtis is having, hes still only averaging 4 a carry.

    The Offense doesn't make many "Explosion Plays", not because they can't, but because they don't have many in the playbook...

    Lets get even deeper, look at how long it takes Hackett to get plays onto the field and then for Pennington to actually CALL the plays. Time and again, we see the Jets Offense take RIGHT UP TO only 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. WHy? Not only is the language of this 1986 era offense to complex and verbose, it is SLOW IN TEMPO. I have NEVER in the 4 years of the Hackett/Herm era seen the Jets Offense act with ANY sense of urgency, and ATTTITUDE REFLECTS LEADERSHIP.



    Look, I don't want ANYBODY to think I'm making excuses for ANYONE. Chad SUCKED yesterday, flat out SUCKED, but this piece of s**t Hackett and his overrated, antiquated, predictable, slow-tempo, ****TY DESIGNED OFFENSE ain't helping this team at ALL.

    This year, with THIS talent....coached by Dan Henning, Charlie Weis, Mike Holmgren, well, I think it would be a MUCH different story.

    As to Chad, SHUT UP and GET YOUR s**t TOGETHER, SON.

    I was behind you 100% last week, then you go out and play like THAT?

    Sheesh.

    Thats my rant and I'm sticking to it... B)

  2. #2
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    Keep this offense against teams like SEA, STL and CIN. But when you play NE, you gotta change it around.

  3. #3
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    Good post Medic. Good analysis.

    Hackett is the key IMO. Fire him, and replace him with someone more....aggressive I 'd say.....and perhaps things will change for us when we play more elite teams.

  4. #4
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    Originally posted by JetMedic@Dec 27 2004, 10:24 PM
    The myths surrounding the New York Jets offense seems to go along the following lines: "Paul Hackett can design a brilliant Offense, but he can't call a good game". Also, we see "Chad doesn't have the arm strength to make the throws" and "Santana Moss doesnt like contact...we need a BIG WR...we need a pass catching TE".

    Well, yes the Jets could use a true threat at TE, and sure, I'd love to see a Drew Bennett/Mike WIlliams type opposite McCareins with Moss in the slot and Cotchery/Carter rounding things out, and while I do now believe that Pennington is nothing but a "J.A.G.", those arent the problems.

    The Problem?

    The entire design of the Offense SUCKS. PERIOD. WATCH the Offense, even when it does execute...even when doing well against a decent but not great D, Chad is FORCED to make PERFECT, PINPOINT throws. Now watch the Pats O. s**t, watch Any other top 15 Offense. Notice that routes in the passing game are designed for one to take pressure off another? That way, even if one or even 2 routes are doubled, someone is usually able to get free without having to check down to the RB or FB.

    Notice how at times against the better Defenses, everything looks so congested? It almost seems that the D is playing with 14 guys on the field. Thats because the offense is COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE and relies ENTIRELY on the QB being COMPLETELY PERFECT. Lets look at something else...Hackett REFUSES to switch up things as far as formations go. How often do we see 4-5 Wide Receivers on the field at once? The Hackett Offense does NOT put pressure on the Defense, it puts it all squarely on the Offense to not only execute, but execute PERFECTLY.

    How many other teams in the league not ony refuse to utilize the SHotgun, but adamantly refuse to even CONSIDER using it to switch up Defenses.

    How about the running game, as good as its been. Draw...Draw...Draw. Everyone knows its coming, but why not throw in some counters, traps, TOSS SWEEPS for Gods Sake. If everyone in the stadium KNOWS whats coming based on the formation, why not throw in a wrinkle or two? Yet we never see much variation in the running attack, and as strange as it sounds, when something seems to work to our strengths (that toss play with 66 & 68 out front), it seems to DISAPPEAR. WTF? I'm sorry, but as great a season as Curtis is having, hes still only averaging 4 a carry.

    The Offense doesn't make many "Explosion Plays", not because they can't, but because they don't have many in the playbook...

    Lets get even deeper, look at how long it takes Hackett to get plays onto the field and then for Pennington to actually CALL the plays. Time and again, we see the Jets Offense take RIGHT UP TO only 1-2 seconds left on the play clock. WHy? Not only is the language of this 1986 era offense to complex and verbose, it is SLOW IN TEMPO. I have NEVER in the 4 years of the Hackett/Herm era seen the Jets Offense act with ANY sense of urgency, and ATTTITUDE REFLECTS LEADERSHIP.



    Look, I don't want ANYBODY to think I'm making excuses for ANYONE. Chad SUCKED yesterday, flat out SUCKED, but this piece of s**t Hackett and his overrated, antiquated, predictable, slow-tempo, ****TY DESIGNED OFFENSE ain't helping this team at ALL.

    This year, with THIS talent....coached by Dan Henning, Charlie Weis, Mike Holmgren, well, I think it would be a MUCH different story.

    As to Chad, SHUT UP and GET YOUR s**t TOGETHER, SON.

    I was behind you 100% last week, then you go out and play like THAT?

    Sheesh.

    Thats my rant and I'm sticking to it... B)
    WOW.

    What he said...

  5. #5
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    I could not have said it better myself. I too strongly believe that Hackett is our #1 problem with the offense. The guy's system doesn't work. He had 4 years to get things going, changed QB's got a better O-line , has 3 great backs, and even upgraded the WR position and still this offense can't get it going. The O never gets into a rythm due to bad play calling and slow getting out on the field. I also notice that the only time the offense started to move the ball was when some 4 wide plays and direct snaps plays where called. This offense is just plane boring and predictiable. If we are calling the plays in the stands can you imagine what the defenses are doing on the field! What I can't understand is Hackett sometimes calls a play that works and you never see it again. We have a back like Jordon and he gets like 3 carries a game? Are you F-in kidding me? SOmetimes I think Hackett is on the take. The thing that bothers me the most is not one play with a shot gun formation! EVery team has one but us!
    Look what happen with our defense, it sucked under Cortell, Herm finally gets the balls to fire him. Henderson comes in brings in some new players and BAM! We go from one of the worst Defenses to one of the top 10 in less than a season! The offense is just about there, we sh-t can Hackett and get more of an aggresive OC, some how resign Jordon , Sh-t Can Becht because he sucks and get a good TE that can catch a damn ball, maybe get another big WR for chad to throw to, get a QB coach to work with Chad and this Offense might get something going.

    SO my finale word...... FIRE HACKETT ASAP, the man is horriable!

  6. #6
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    The guy's system has a winning percentage in the NFL over four years. How can anybody say it doesn't work?

    Does it win Superbowls? No.

  7. #7
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    Excellent Post, Medic ... best I've seen in a LONG TIME

    I touched on this a few weeks ago when I wondered out loud why our offense has so few EXPLOSION PLAYS as compared with most any other offense I watch ... even the bad ones ... which tend to average at least one or two explosion plays per game, unless they are laying a real egg that day

    I explained at the time that EXPLOSION PLAYS and DEEP BALLS are not necessarily the same thing, so this has nothing to do with our QB's arm ... in fact, far more often than not EXPLOSION PLAYS come via YAC or a LONG RUN from scrimmage

    But here's the thing about YAC, and you nailed it in your post ... that usually entails the WR gaining seperation in his rout so when he catches the ball there is nothing but real estate between him and the Goal Line ... maybe one deep safety to beat, but you get the idea ... it usually entails at least one WR running wide open once or twice per game {for bad offenses}, which often results in an EXPLOSION PLAY

    I watch tons of football games ... TONS ... I've seen a slew of other teams this year, as I do every year ... and almost without fail these other offenses will have an explosion play or two during the course of a game {minimum}, EXCEPT US

    Hackett's offense is the opposite ... it almost always depends on sustained drives ... the occasional explosion play is the extreme abberation with this offense ... off the top of my head I would venture to guess that we haven't had but a hand-full of legit explosion plays ALL YEAR ... heck, the Colts probably had more of these plays in nearly each one of their games this year {SINGLE GAMES} than we have ALL SEASON

    And again, explosion plays DO NOT always mean LONG BALLS ... in fact, more often than not they are related to a WR gaining seperation and then striking for some serious YAC ... but the Jets have fewer of these plays than perhaps any team in football, or at least any halfway decent offense ... and IMO that is a MASSIVE INDICTMENT of Hackett's schemes

    I mean, you absolutely nailed it my friend ... something about this offense often makes it look like the defense has 14 men on the field ... that's how rare it is that we see a WR running wide open ... and that is HIGHLY UNUSUAL

    Heck man, you should have a few explosion plays per game {explosion plays, not necessarily TD's} BY ACCIDENT!!

    No $hit ... with the type of athletes most NFL offenses employ, you should have a few of these plays per game BY ACCIDENT ... and that's assuming you wouldn't know how to make these plays happen BY DESIGN

    I mean, you really gotta be doing something HORRIBLY WRONG to get as few of these plays out of your offense as Hackett does ... he couldn't do worse in this area if he tried ... I MEAN THAT ... if he intentionally set-out to limit explosion plays for this offense, he could not do any worse than he is now

    In other words, Medic ... I couldn't possibly agree with you more

    There is something very wrong with this mans schemes ... something very, very wrong

    I don't claim to be an offensive genius so I don't know what it is ... but I've seen enough football in 30+ Years to know that the lack of explosion plays from this mans offense is bordering on impossible

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    Accurate,insightful,thought provoking

  9. #9
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    I agree, great post Medic...we replaced fat Teddy and got more aggresive as you say and you see the results...fat Teddy's DEE still sucks...replace Buddy Hackett's OFF & get more aggresive and see what happens

    I like your analysis about how Chad has to be perfect...makes alot of sense if you sit down & watch some of his throws...well done

  10. #10
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    Here is all you need to know about Hackett.

    1) He never EVER deviates from his offense. New England has linebackers playing safety, the corners are a joke right now. So how come Hackett does not exploit it. Where was the 4 wide. It was 2 or 3 wide at the most and very little shots if any shots down the field. How come Jonathan Carter has become a non-factor. Are you telling me that he could has become so bad right now that he can't even get on the field ?

    2) The Jets tendencies are always the same. Miss a pass on first down. Come right back with a draw. New England or any good defense know this about the Jets and will set their defense to it. It is always the same plays.

    3) Hackett is inflexible. A good OC or a good HC for that matter will design his offense to the talent he has. The Jets with Curtis and Lamont should be a smash mouth, run the ball down your throat until we stop you team. Not some team that relies on tricking on the defense. It was the same with Vinny and Qunicy. You have vertical qb's throwing east, west. Hackett did nothing to his offense to take advantage of the OB's strengths. If anything (especially with Quincy) he became even more conservative !!!!

    Fear not though Jets fans. I find it hard to believe with Hackett's body of work over the past 4 years that he survives this year.

  11. #11
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    This thread is absolutely correct and I have beeen feeling the same since I saw the team in San Diego. Even when we won it seemed pathetic and infuriating in person. It also seemed as if the O didn't want to take advantage of the clear focus San Diego took to the run and the single coverage outside. There are several key points on this thread.

    The scheme relies on perfection in execution. Let me take this further. All of the pieces of Hackett's convoluted scheme most work for anything to work. The whole thing is like a rolling stone hitting a stout tree when other offenses are like rushing water. They move and shift and evolve and are elusive. Everyone knows where the Jets are and what they are doing?

    Why? The Jets routes do not pressue the other team's scheme or communication.

    If a team can focus on our main runs, nothing new or different emerges to exploit this focus. Why are reporters diagnosing what happened with New England's schemes on Sunday?

    Each route depends on the individual players beating the other team's scheme rather than our scheme pressuring the other teams into mistakes.

    If the Patriots were covering deep with safety help, yet stout against the run with the front seven, and our TE can't beat man coverage from old LBs, where was the shotgun 4 wide and the quick slant to Jerricho. Where was Jerricho period? They had no way of covering him. On the other side, this team does not have the offensive line to dictate to physical and athletic d lines. These guys are not good enough. If we want to play like Pittsburgh we need bigger guys and to play more of Lamont. On Sunday I was actually more disappointed in the offensive line than any other unit.

  12. #12
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    You notice what all you Guys leave out?? When people talk about the Pats
    they think BB...The Cowboys? people think Tuna.. The Chargers??Marty Schottenheimer..But the Jets? The Buck doesn't stop with Hermie,No
    Sir!! No Hermie got to the playoffs 3(Maybe) out of 4 years! The problem
    is Hackett! And guess who keeps him? Is it Hermie??NOOOO It's Chads
    Fault or Bradway..But never Warm and Fuzzy Hermie..Now that I think
    about it maybe your right..Saddam was a good Dude..He just had Bad
    Assistants... :lol:

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by savage69@Dec 28 2004, 08:47 AM
    You notice what all you Guys leave out?? When people talk about the Pats
    they think BB...The Cowboys? people think Tuna.. The Chargers??Marty Schottenheimer..But the Jets? The Buck doesn't stop with Hermie,No
    Sir!! No Hermie got to the playoffs 3(Maybe) out of 4 years! The problem
    is Hackett! And guess who keeps him? Is it Hermie??NOOOO It's Chads
    Fault or Bradway..But never Warm and Fuzzy Hermie..Now that I think
    about it maybe your right..Saddam was a good Dude..He just had Bad
    Assistants... :lol:
    Your right about that. The final call has to go to Herm and if he keeps Hackett here next year then you really have to start questioning Herm. He made the change last year with Cottrell, he should have wacked Hackett as well. Hackett basically got a reprieve from the Governor at the last minute.

    Not this year though.

  14. #14
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    I agree that Hackett blows, but Chad just isn't that good, either. Face it - our QB is just an average player...that's it. On a good day, he's a top 15 QB, nothing more.

  15. #15
    It seems to me that they take too long to get plays in ... giving us little time to audible ...

    we don't seem to audible that much ... that is either Chad's fault or the fault of Hackett on getting plays in on time.

  16. #16
    I think that is a really good look at our offensive woes. We dont do anything to help anyone with the play designs. Every pass play is essentially the same. When you set up with 2 wideouts, 2 backs, and a TE that basically breaks down to McCareins running a 7 yard out, Becht releasing 7 yards upfield, Martin either going 3 yards over the middle or off for a screen and Sowell breaking for a screen in the opposite direction with Moss releasing on a deeper pattern across the middle you have no hope for anything. Your TE and RB can basically be covered by 1 guy. Ditto for McCareins on a play designed to either get limited yards after teh catch or no YAC. Either an end or LB covers Sowell. That leaves a zone of 4-5 guys converging on Moss. Thats how you get so badly picked off trying to throw into triple coverage.

    When you go deep you have to either run the sidelines where the ball isnt getting, or is less likely to get picked, or you have to use someone else to at least draw the safeties in. With all of the Jets within 7 yards of the LOS you will never break anything outside of that yardage. Ever. And when we go to the 3 WR set its still the same junk except Chrebet typically runs down the seam, while the other two run either an out of a comeback pattern.

    You cant expect to cross people up by making them think "will they run or will they pass", which is what our offense is built on. Without a game breaking back, and Martin is not a big play guy and who knows what Jordan is, there is not that need to respect the run as much. If you guess wrong and give up 7 yards to Curtis its no biggie. You know the Jets are running a draw up the middle or a play action roll out on the next 2 plays. Take your chances and try to stop them. You know they arent taking shots outside the red zone at a TD. You know they are looking to drive 10 yards at a time. When you have to run so many plays to get to the end zone odds are someone is going to miss a block, or run a wrong route, or drop a pass. Everyone makes a mistake here and there. You know Herm and company are going to punt anywhere outside of the 34 yard line so buckle down around your 40. Trust me you will get the ball back.

    The thing is against these good teams big plays break a defense. The Ravens were broken when Moss made that big reception. We were steamrolling them. One bad play and they got some swagger back and then when we didnt try to play football anymore they didn't go down. After the way the Pats broke down in that game in Miami and the way we began driving the ball on them dont you think they would have gotten demoralized had we scored a TD on the first drive? Instead it was our guys who got demoralized becuse of a pick.

    Its just a terrible offensive scheme. You have to create confusion and help your teammates during the play. We dont do it.

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Warfish@Dec 27 2004, 10:36 PM
    Good post Medic. Good analysis.

    Hackett is the key IMO. Fire him, and replace him with someone more....aggressive I 'd say.....and perhaps things will change for us when we play more elite teams.
    LMAO!! You want to have Chad thowing his pretty butterflies downfield more often??!! We would be 5-10 right now if Hackett or any OC called aggressive games with ol' rag-arm at the helm. Hackett's conservative style is what allows Pennington a chance to win. The problem is Chad isn't good enough to beat good teams, and Hackett can't do a thing about that.

  18. #18
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    Good post.

    I don't want to dwell on '02 too much, but its the best example of what a Pennington-driven offense can be.

    And the thing that's missing from that year is the space down the field. Everything feels so cramped now, and I don't believe its because Chad can't throw it 70 yards. He couldn't in '02, either.

    It doesn't make sense that an offense with a great running game, speedy wideouts like Moss, McCarreins and Carter, and backs who are active in the passing game struggles so much to find space on the field. Yet the better defenses seem able to take all of these things away, leaving us nothing.

    Our biggest problem seems to be a lack of creativity in our offense. For all our weapons, the better defenses seem to always know exactly where the play is headed.

    One way or the other, that needs to change.

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    What makes New England so successful is Bellicheck's(sp?) ability to adapt. Hell, he has a wideout playing corner in a depleted backfield and until two weeks ago vs. Miami, teams were unable to take advantage.

    Hackett never seems to find mismatches. He is far too rigid. It is not a coincidence that fans of USC, KC, and Pitt all have the same remarks about the man. He needs to go.

    Right now, there are rumors about Mike Tice being axed after the season. I personally think he stays, but if, in fact he does go, I would like to see Scott Linehan come in here. Hell, anyone would be an upgrade over the village idiot we have running our offense.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by MiamiJet@Dec 28 2004, 11:46 AM

    Hackett never seems to find mismatches.
    Dead on.

    Remember the Baltimore game? Chris McCallister goes down and we don't take one shot at their secondary until our lead is gone.

    Does anyone remember the game we lost to New England late in 2001. We were beating them until the early second half and, really, controlling the game. Then Aaron Glenn goes down, which was a big deal because the Jets played man coverage that year.

    Bellichick went after our corners and the game turned as a result. To this day, I maintain that New England never wins that Super Bowl if Glenn doesn't turn his ankle.

    That's the sort of thing Hackett never does. You wonder if he even reads the opponent's injury report beforehand.

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