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Thread: NYT: Plan for Stadium in Queens Shakes Up Political Lineup

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    Exclamation NYT: Plan for Stadium in Queens Shakes Up Political Lineup

    Plan for Stadium in Queens Shakes Up Political Lineup
    By CHARLES V. BAGLI


    In the latest round of As the Jets Turn, it is hard to know the players' positions without a scorecard.

    The Jets, who refused to consider a less lucrative stadium in Queens during their ill-fated five-year quest to build a new home in Manhattan, are now proposing to build an 80,000-seat football stadium where the Fountain of Planets, a remnant of the 1964 World's Fair, now stands in Flushing Meadows-Corona Park.

    John Puccio, a co-founder of Bring Our Jets Home who supported a West Side stadium, is organizing a "tailgate party" today at Queens Borough Hall to support the team when the Jets' president, L. Jay Cross, explains the proposal to Borough President Helen Marshall and various elected officials in a closed meeting at 3 p.m.

    But David Oats, the founder of the Queens Olympic Committee, who opposed the Manhattan stadium in favor of one in Queens, is adamantly opposed to the Jets' plan to take 15 acres of public parkland.

    John C. Liu, the city councilman whose district includes the Fountain of the Planets, favored the Manhattan stadium, but says that the Jets' park gambit would be a "hard sell."

    But Assemblyman Michael N. Gianaris of Queens, who also backed the Manhattan stadium, said the Jets' proposal was a great idea so long as the team replaced the parkland it used.

    And Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who backed the Jets' $2.2 billion Manhattan stadium as a critical lever for redeveloping the West Side, said on Friday that the latest plan to take parkland might be "too controversial," although he wants to work with the team.

    The shifting positions may boggle the minds of most Jets fans, especially since the team is also negotiating with the Giants and the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority about building a new stadium with a retractable roof in the Meadowlands.

    Dan Andrews, a spokesman for the Queens borough president, said yesterday that Ms. Marshall was aware that the team may be looking for leverage in its negotiations on both sides of the Hudson River. He said she organized the meeting with elected officials in Queens after talking to Mr. Cross about the Jets' plans in Queens.

    "The fact is," Mr. Andrews said, "they opened the door a little bit, and the borough president thought it incumbent on her to encourage them to consider Queens."

    Mr. Puccio said he expected a lot of people to show up at his tailgate party to show that "there's definitely a lot of community support for a stadium in Flushing Meadows."

    "The Jets' exile in New Jersey will finally end," Mr. Puccio said.

    Many people thought that the team was looking at a ramshackle district of auto shops known as Willets Point, near Shea Stadium and Flushing Meadows-Corona Park. But Queens officials say the Jets fear that it may take until 2009 or 2010 for the city to condemn the property, relocate the 150 businesses that are currently there and clean up the environment. The team, however, wants a new stadium by the end of 2008, when its Meadowlands lease expires.

    So the team has come up with the proposal for the Fountain of Planets site.

    "If there's real interest coming out of the meeting, then we will seriously consider the idea, but either way, we appreciate the effort to bring us back to New York," said Matt Higgins, a Jets' vice president.

    The parks department turned off the fountain years ago, and the water there is a dark pool of garbage. The Jets could use the same parking lots that serve the Mets at Shea Stadium.

    To some extent, the Jets are taking a cue from the Yankees, who have won support to build a new stadium north of the existing ballpark, on 22.4 acres in Macombs Dam Park and Mullally Park. The city has agreed to spend $135 million to replace the parkland with 27 acres of new parks.

    In 1995, the United States Tennis Association also expanded its tennis complex onto 25 more acres of the park when it built a new stadium for the United States Open.

    But Mr. Oats, who had long advocated a Jets stadium at Willets Point, says he is incensed by the latest proposal. He supported the tennis association's plans in the 1990's, but he says the Jets are simply grabbing parkland and a piece of the World's Fair, albeit one that has seen better days.

    "It's a parks department problem, not an urban renewal problem that anyone's been asked to fix, not like Willets Point," Mr. Oats said.

    Ben Haber, president of the Civic Association of Kew Gardens Hills, said yesterday that any attempt to turn over one inch of the heavily used park to the Jets was a "giveaway to billionaire sports club owners." Flushing Meadows has already given up 121 acres for Shea Stadium and the tennis center.

    "This is probably the mother of all foolishness," he said. "This is a park for the people. Now, you're going to put another huge stadium in the park?"

    Chuck Apelian, vice chairman of Community Board 7, whose district includes Flushing Meadows, said he favored the Willets Point idea. But after the battle over the West Side stadium, the Jets and the mayor may be reluctant to lead the charge for a stadium in Flushing Meadows during an election season. But the proposal could gain ground if it appeared that Queens politicians were asking for it.

    "We've grown accustomed to Plan B," he said. "Let's see what we can do. I'd love to have the Jets back."

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    Does this Oates guy like rats or something. That old fountain is rat infested. At night you cant get near that fountain.

    The Parks Dept doesnt have th money to restore the fountain, if they did it would be in good shape right now.

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    i dident read the colum yet but good stuff anyway thanks.

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    he is in favor of the jets in queens but not in favor of the team using 15acres of public parkland? wtf :wtf:? that pond/fountain is horrible get rid of it, an 80k seat open air stadium will look much better there complimenting the new mets stadium and the tennis center with the unisphere only a few hundred yards away.

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    one more thing, i doubt it would be that much of a complication for the jets to rebuild a few soccer and baseball fields around the area. JETS ARE COMING HOME!!!!!

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    Does Oats own land in Willets Point or something? Why be in favor of them moving to queens but against the plan that makes it easier?

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    We will know more after the Jets meet in Queens today, but just like the WSS this is going to take a lot to get done.

    As for the fountain.... that is crazy, if it is in half as bad a shape as they say it is, why wouldn't you want something else there?

    BZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaZulia
    We will know more after the Jets meet in Queens today, but just like the WSS this is going to take a lot to get done.

    As for the fountain.... that is crazy, if it is in half as bad a shape as they say it is, why wouldn't you want something else there?

    BZ
    even if it is in perfect shape as it was in 64' i still would rather have a stadium there

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    Like I said in the other thread on this, this guy is going to be a troublemaker who is going to have others piggyback his views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIDeadHead
    Like I said in the other thread on this, this guy is going to be a troublemaker who is going to have others piggyback his views.
    like cablevision if the stadium will have a retractable roof and will rival msg...

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    Oats is this plans' Silver or Bruno. How could he possibly favor relocating businesses and millions of dollars worth of environmental cleanup as opposed to filling in a nasty fountain and rejuvenating some grimy old parks? He has an ulterior motive here.

    I am really getting sick of this stuff.

    At this point, if this is going to be another long drawn out, "listen to this panel, hope for support from this panel, grease the palms of this control board, then hope for support from one or two goons," type of battle, I would rather not bother. New York has a bunch of professional sports teams, and the JETS is the ONLY one that gets zero love from the city at the political and business level. I am tired of some monkeys having something to say everytime an idea is floated through the media, then citing stupid reasons as their arguement against an idea. I mean this guy says this is "an issue for the
    parks department???" What kind of lousy excuse is that for standing against a plan. The area SUCKS!!!! I have only seen satellite pictures, but from space it looks like an atrocity. Don't put a stadium on it cause its a parks department issue? Is he stupid?

    You know what... I know Wooody won't do it, but if NY is not going to anty up and get one of its teams its own place to play, then he should bounce and move to Jersey. Yes, and I mean change the name to the NJ and everything cause this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

    I am sick of every other team being able to get new stadiums without alot of fuss, but the JETS can't even get the powers that be to agree on using some old funky *** park to build a stadium on? F*ck New York... move the team to Jersey permanantly.

    Down here on the Shore in Jersey, towns are exercising a right called "eminant domain," and while there are those who believe the towns are abusing that right, it is being used and old businesses and old run down houses are being torn down in favor of high dollar condo's, townhouses, and modern looking office space. That empty, nasty, rat infested (not firsthand information, but I trust Jetman 67's assessment of the site) garbage dump, hanta virus breakout waiting to happen piece of property should be a slam dunk to get a stadium built on and some new blasted park space created.

    Burn the rats out (cause they will come back if all you do is chase them away), turn the entire area over, build the stadium, move the planet out of the fountain, keep the sphere towers, and play some football in a nicely re-developed park space. Call it Fountain of Planets Park... if not, I hope he moves to Jersey and gives OUR money (tickets, merchandise, parking fees, etc etc) to a state that is at least willing to help them get a place to play.

    I got no issue with any of you New Yorkers personally, but the city (politically and business wise) sucks and I hate it!!!!!

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    dont get worked up here. there are always people who support and oppose any project. I doubt this one oats schmuck will kill the project, no matter where in ny or nj the jets decide to build a stadium. There is going to be a few goons who want to kill it. not because they really think the project will hurt the area, but because they have some political gain wether its media attention or under the table $$$ from cblvsn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Fumes
    Oats is this plans' Silver or Bruno. How could he possibly favor relocating businesses and millions of dollars worth of environmental cleanup as opposed to filling in a nasty fountain and rejuvenating some grimy old parks? He has an ulterior motive here.

    I am really getting sick of this stuff.

    At this point, if this is going to be another long drawn out, "listen to this panel, hope for support from this panel, grease the palms of this control board, then hope for support from one or two goons," type of battle, I would rather not bother. New York has a bunch of professional sports teams, and the JETS is the ONLY one that gets zero love from the city at the political and business level. I am tired of some monkeys having something to say everytime an idea is floated through the media, then citing stupid reasons as their arguement against an idea. I mean this guy says this is "an issue for the
    parks department???" What kind of lousy excuse is that for standing against a plan. The area SUCKS!!!! I have only seen satellite pictures, but from space it looks like an atrocity. Don't put a stadium on it cause its a parks department issue? Is he stupid?

    You know what... I know Wooody won't do it, but if NY is not going to anty up and get one of its teams its own place to play, then he should bounce and move to Jersey. Yes, and I mean change the name to the NJ and everything cause this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

    I am sick of every other team being able to get new stadiums without alot of fuss, but the JETS can't even get the powers that be to agree on using some old funky *** park to build a stadium on? F*ck New York... move the team to Jersey permanantly.

    Down here on the Shore in Jersey, towns are exercising a right called "eminant domain," and while there are those who believe the towns are abusing that right, it is being used and old businesses and old run down houses are being torn down in favor of high dollar condo's, townhouses, and modern looking office space. That empty, nasty, rat infested (not firsthand information, but I trust Jetman 67's assessment of the site) garbage dump, hanta virus breakout waiting to happen piece of property should be a slam dunk to get a stadium built on and some new blasted park space created.

    Burn the rats out (cause they will come back if all you do is chase them away), turn the entire area over, build the stadium, move the planet out of the fountain, keep the sphere towers, and play some football in a nicely re-developed park space. Call it Fountain of Planets Park... if not, I hope he moves to Jersey and gives OUR money (tickets, merchandise, parking fees, etc etc) to a state that is at least willing to help them get a place to play.

    I got no issue with any of you New Yorkers personally, but the city (politically and business wise) sucks and I hate it!!!!!
    Oats is a mouth, nothing more. He has no power or voting authority. I Googled him and one description that keeps coming up is that he is a "World's Fair Fanatic" What the hell is that? Is that like some kind of Trekkie? I was not born until 1967, but I can appreciate that people have nostalgia and fond memories of the fair, but let's be real, get with the times. The Jets have agreed to replace the parkland - wherever and whenver that may be, so it's time to do something useful with the Fair site.

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    New York Games.com take on the new stadium (this guy was VERY against the WSS but taken with a grain of salt)

    http://www.newyorkgames.org/news/



    Taking part of Flushing Meadows-Corona Park for a football stadium is a nonstarter. Mayor Bloomberg agrees (though Doctoroff is against any plan).

    That's not to say there isn't a way to find a spot in Queens where the Jets can land. Above is an image of NYg's plan mentioned last week. There are two components:

    1) A football stadium where Shea stands today. A new baseball stadium was announced in June just east of Shea. After the Mets build their new home, Shea will be torn down. This site would be used for the Jets stadium. Construction would have to wait a few years until Shea is demolished.

    2) New parking lots in Willets Point. This is the area north and east of Shea and its parking lots. In any land assemblage project of this nature, there are always a significant number of willing sellers. Landowners want to: retire, relocate, get value when they can get it, support a popular project, stay on good terms with City Hall, etc. But there are always landowners who don't want to sell as well. That makes assembling a single large parcel extremely difficult.

    Eminent domain would be needed to get a parcel big enough to build a football stadium among the dozens of landowners in Willets Point. Condemnation would also be needed with the Jets park plan. (The Jets would build a new Willets park to replace parkland lost to a stadium in Flushing Meadows-Corona Park; see map below).

    Condemnation would not be needed in NYg's plan, as parking unlike a stadium or a park can be created on a patchwork basis: several dozen spaces here, a few dozen a ways away, more across the street, etc. Willing sellers would make the project work.



    The only downside to this plan is the Jets would have to stay in the Meadowlands a few years longer.

    The alternative is to stay there forever.
    BZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by petejet
    Oats is a mouth, nothing more. He has no power or voting authority. I Googled him and one description that keeps coming up is that he is a "World's Fair Fanatic" What the hell is that? Is that like some kind of Trekkie? I was not born until 1967, but I can appreciate that people have nostalgia and fond memories of the fair, but let's be real, get with the times. The Jets have agreed to replace the parkland - wherever and whenver that may be, so it's time to do something useful with the Fair site.
    i also looked him up, he's is just an olympic supporter and an international event moron. no reason to fret he has just as much power as any deli owner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Fumes
    Oats is this plans' Silver or Bruno. How could he possibly favor relocating businesses and millions of dollars worth of environmental cleanup as opposed to filling in a nasty fountain and rejuvenating some grimy old parks? He has an ulterior motive here.

    I am really getting sick of this stuff.

    At this point, if this is going to be another long drawn out, "listen to this panel, hope for support from this panel, grease the palms of this control board, then hope for support from one or two goons," type of battle, I would rather not bother. New York has a bunch of professional sports teams, and the JETS is the ONLY one that gets zero love from the city at the political and business level. I am tired of some monkeys having something to say everytime an idea is floated through the media, then citing stupid reasons as their arguement against an idea. I mean this guy says this is "an issue for the
    parks department???" What kind of lousy excuse is that for standing against a plan. The area SUCKS!!!! I have only seen satellite pictures, but from space it looks like an atrocity. Don't put a stadium on it cause its a parks department issue? Is he stupid?

    You know what... I know Wooody won't do it, but if NY is not going to anty up and get one of its teams its own place to play, then he should bounce and move to Jersey. Yes, and I mean change the name to the NJ and everything cause this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

    I am sick of every other team being able to get new stadiums without alot of fuss, but the JETS can't even get the powers that be to agree on using some old funky *** park to build a stadium on? F*ck New York... move the team to Jersey permanantly.

    Down here on the Shore in Jersey, towns are exercising a right called "eminant domain," and while there are those who believe the towns are abusing that right, it is being used and old businesses and old run down houses are being torn down in favor of high dollar condo's, townhouses, and modern looking office space. That empty, nasty, rat infested (not firsthand information, but I trust Jetman 67's assessment of the site) garbage dump, hanta virus breakout waiting to happen piece of property should be a slam dunk to get a stadium built on and some new blasted park space created.

    Burn the rats out (cause they will come back if all you do is chase them away), turn the entire area over, build the stadium, move the planet out of the fountain, keep the sphere towers, and play some football in a nicely re-developed park space. Call it Fountain of Planets Park... if not, I hope he moves to Jersey and gives OUR money (tickets, merchandise, parking fees, etc etc) to a state that is at least willing to help them get a place to play.

    I got no issue with any of you New Yorkers personally, but the city (politically and business wise) sucks and I hate it!!!!!

    I live in Queens and pass the worlds fair grounds everyday on my way to work. A stadium would compliment that area. For years I have been wondering why they couldn't build a stadium there.
    This guy oats leaves me at a loss for words. Why would he be a huge supporter of the olympic stadium in queens, and now be the biggest opponent when they actually consider it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaZulia
    New York Games.com take on the new stadium (this guy was VERY against the WSS but taken with a grain of salt)

    http://www.newyorkgames.org/news/





    BZ


    ughh thats a horrible idea, imagine days when the mets and jets both have a home game...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipShot
    ughh thats a horrible idea, imagine days when the mets and jets both have a home game...
    Won't happen. NFL and MLB will be smart enough to avoid this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by petejet
    Won't happen. NFL and MLB will be smart enough to avoid this.
    are you sure? how about detroit? ford field and comerica across the street from eachother

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipShot
    are you sure? how about detroit? ford field and comerica across the street from eachother
    and seattle with quest and safeco field right next to eachother

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